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Help - Open engine neglected bike :|

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  • Help - Open engine neglected bike :|

    Hi, I posted on here years back now when I started tinkering with the engine on my Kat and was having issues with setting valve clearances and there being excessive play in one of the rockers (from memory!) Anyway, life got in the way of me being able to put time into working on the bike and it's been left ever since. Now I have time to put things back together but I'm conscious having left the bike standing for years is probably going to have caused some issues. So what I'd appreciate advice on is what I should do before I put it back together, is there anything I will need to take apart/clean/replace that's likely to have got gunged up from being left alone?

    One other thing I'd noticed before I dismantled things was that one of the down pipes was cooler than the rest so thoughts on what this could have been caused by would also be appreciated?

    I'd appreciate any help and suggestions with this and I'm fully aware that neglecting it was a bad idea as was taking the top off the engine when I didn't have time to dedicate to it in the first place so no need to remind me of that

    Cheers

  • #2
    If you want to clean any gunked up parts, I've been told that Kerosene is a awesome cleaner. I'd guess taking the oil pan off to allow the cleaning solution to drain would be best, but you'd have to remove the exhaust to do that. The header bolts can be a pain in the ass if they're rusted really bad, so be careful and use some penetrating oil.
    The cold down pipe could be several things, such as no spark etc... You really need to analyze it a little more to figure that one out. You should clean the carbs now, while the bike it partially disassemble and your motivated to get it back in service. Take the time to do it right and you'll be gald you did. If not, don't even bother to begin with because you'll just be wasting your time and mess something up more than you hoped for.
    EDIT: When I say do it right, as with anything worth having...I mean be prepared to spend a little money. Don't be a total cheap ass here. If bikes where like bicycles, then every kid in the world would have one.
    Last edited by katanarider; 04-21-2017, 02:46 PM.
    My Katana-1100 17" wheel swap
    http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=136894

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the reply! The exhaust is going nowhere, tried all sorts to remove previously, it may as well be welded on. As for the pipe, I was rushing when I posted, should have mentioned that the coils, plugs and leads are all fine so don't think electrics are to blame. I was reading through carbs101 earlier as from reading other people's posts they would probably benefit from a clean and there could easily be blockages too. Need to go through everything that's involved to understand what will likely need replacing when I do take them to bits as you mentioned it might cost a bit.

      One bit that wasn't too clear was talking about drilling out a brass plug to get the carb bodies open, need to understand this part as it wasn't too clear from the pictures, drill, hmmm...

      You mentioned kerosene for cleaning,what's the equivalent in the UK, any idea?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Seft View Post
        Thanks for the reply! The exhaust is going nowhere, tried all sorts to remove previously, it may as well be welded on. As for the pipe, I was rushing when I posted, should have mentioned that the coils, plugs and leads are all fine so don't think electrics are to blame. I was reading through carbs101 earlier as from reading other people's posts they would probably benefit from a clean and there could easily be blockages too. Need to go through everything that's involved to understand what will likely need replacing when I do take them to bits as you mentioned it might cost a bit.

        One bit that wasn't too clear was talking about drilling out a brass plug to get the carb bodies open, need to understand this part as it wasn't too clear from the pictures, drill, hmmm...

        You mentioned kerosene for cleaning,what's the equivalent in the UK, any idea?
        Kerosene, heating oil, diesel... all the same thing (just different grades/dye). Good for cleaning off grease or oil grime, also does a good job on brake dust.

        Clean the carbs (fully clean, not just a spray or rinse off). Use a carb cleaning dip or other dip process. (not kerosene)

        Check rubber components for stiffness/cracking or dry rot.

        Change all fluids.

        Krey
        93 750 Kat



        Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

        "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

        Comment


        • #5
          The drilling out of the pilot screw block off plates (plugs) isn't really drilling them out. The pilot screws are hidden behind little inserts that prevent people from adjusting them. I guess you understand that part.??? Just some stupid thing Suzuki did from the factory. However, with the increased ethanol in gas these days, along with vibrations from the engine (when it did run) and varnish build up, they need to be adjusted at some point (During Rebuilds). Anyway, they're only about 1 millimeter thick (or less). If you drill down into them, you'll damage the pilot screw. You'll want to just widen the hole some how. The most common method is using a drill bit to enlarge the hole, but not exceeding the thickness of the block off plug. Once its large enough, take a large thread screw (wood screw) and twist it in with your fingers just enough to grab it, then wiggle the plug out. Use some lubricant if needed...I think they're brass (soft metal).
          EDIT: I've used paint thinner to clean parts a long time ago. Can't remember the name of it, but I seen a video on youtube saying to use Mineral Spirits. I believe its supposed to be safe for rubber gaskets. Do some research and don't just take my word for it.
          Last edited by katanarider; 04-21-2017, 06:17 PM.
          My Katana-1100 17" wheel swap
          http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=136894

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Kreylyn View Post
            Kerosene, heating oil, diesel... all the same thing (just different grades/dye). Good for cleaning off grease or oil grime, also does a good job on brake dust.

            Clean the carbs (fully clean, not just a spray or rinse off). Use a carb cleaning dip or other dip process. (not kerosene)

            Check rubber components for stiffness/cracking or dry rot.

            Change all fluids.

            Krey
            Thanks, I've been reading through the carbs101 pages and the watching the video, sadly instead of working on the bike I had to spent the weekend clearing up my dump of a garage so there was space to take everything to bits in an organised way

            As for rubber parts I found a post on here last week from someone who'd put together a list of replacement parts in a kit, can't find the post again so not sure if it was current or not though or if they shipped to UK. I figured I may as well just replace anything perishable once I have everything in bits regardless of it's state as it's not exactly a quick job taking this much of the bike to bits. Are there any recommend third party/after market suppliers worth looking at or should I always go with Suzuki's OEM parts? Only ask I wanted a replacement screw a few years back and the charged an insane price for it!
            Cheers

            Originally posted by katanarider View Post
            The drilling out of the pilot screw block off plates (plugs) isn't really drilling them out. The pilot screws are hidden behind little inserts that prevent people from adjusting them. I guess you understand that part.???
            Yeah it just sounded like something that could go horribly wrong quite easily, do you know what clearance there is from the bottom of the plug to the screw underneath? Sure I'm just being excessively paranoid about this and sure it will be pretty straight forward when they're off the bike and I can see what's what!
            Last edited by Seft; 04-24-2017, 02:54 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

            Comment


            • #7
              K&L sells float needles and some other stuff. Its usually cheaper. I'd just cross reference and research before purchasing. Shit happens ! For instance, K&L sells two different sets of float needles for the Kat-1100. One is called the "Economy" set, which is a smaller than stock, but seem to work for those who've purchased them.

              Originally posted by Seft View Post
              Yeah it just sounded like something that could go horribly wrong quite easily, do you know what clearance there is from the bottom of the plug to the screw underneath? Sure I'm just being excessively paranoid about this and sure it will be pretty straight forward when they're off the bike and I can see what's what!
              Not much clearance at all ! Be Extremely Cautious !
              You may be able to just tap them to knock them side ways, then pick them out EDIT: If you try knocking it sideways you could jam it down and make it harder to remove. Stick to the usual method, its proven. I've always read people hollowing out the hole slightly, then picking at the hole till they pop loose (which is what I did too) .
              Last edited by katanarider; 04-24-2017, 03:12 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
              My Katana-1100 17" wheel swap
              http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=136894

              Comment


              • #8
                Ok, so I've been looking around for replacement gasket and o-ring sets to replace the ones in the old carbs once I get them to bits and all the kits come with the a replacement float valve kit too, no one's mentioned replacing this and my haynes manual doesn't talk about it being a likey target for replacement either. So, why's it included in the kits?

                This is the kit I was looking at: http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/suzuki/g...oat_valve_kit/

                There are also kits that have extra rings in like this one: http://www.nrp-carbs.co.uk/shop/inde...roduct_id=2856

                ...and why do screws for this bike all seem to cost about 4 each!!!!!?

                Comment


                • #9
                  You mean "float needle"? Should come with the kit. I wouldn't skip that, you'll be back doing it again if you do.
                  "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset you when I called you stupid. I thought you already knew..."
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                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 92xjunker View Post
                    You mean "float needle"? Should come with the kit. I wouldn't skip that, you'll be back doing it again if you do.
                    Yep looks like that's what it is, there are two bits, presumably the other bit is the valve assembly the float needle goes into. Turns out pricing up the OEM rubber parts separately would cost me far more than the kits anyway. All being well should be able to order parts at the end of the month and get started
                    Thanks for your help so far!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Seft View Post
                      One bit that wasn't too clear was talking about drilling out a brass plug to get the carb bodies open, need to understand this part as it wasn't too clear from the pictures, drill, hmmm...
                      If I remember correctly, my kit had 2 drill bits.

                      Drill 1 was for drilling the sheet metal idle circuit screw covers just enough to thread in a sheet metal screw for prying them out.

                      Drill 2 was for drilling out the slides so that they'd go up faster for better throttle response.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ultrasonic Cleaning for Carbs

                        So there seems to be a mass of opinion on was is/isn't the 'right' or 'best' way to clean carbs even on this site let alone the rest of the internet. Given that small ultrasonic cleaners are quite cheap now it looks like a viable option vs the various cans of sprays and other chemistry and results I've seen pictures of look excellent if they're actually genuine.

                        Does anyone have any experience of this, searching this forum threw up a couple of suggestions from people to try it but no one posting evidence it was good?

                        This was the cleaner I was looking at and it state carb cleaning as one of its uses, need to check the dimensions of the tank vs the largest piece of carb: https://www.amazon.co.uk/GT-Professi...NS/ref=sr_1_25
                        Last edited by Seft; 04-25-2017, 03:26 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          As you've notice, there seem to be more than one way to get the job done. So, I think you've already answered your own question. Just try something and if it works, great. If not, well, try something different. Theres no doubt that spray can carb cleaner will always be on of the most valuable tools. The reason why, if you spray the carb cleaner through the little holes (circuits) its got to go some where. Either its going to push the debris out or its going to splash back in your face. Be sure to where safety glasses. Being in the UK, I'm not 100% sure whats available to you. It may benefit you to talk to someone local.
                          My Katana-1100 17" wheel swap
                          http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=136894

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Seft View Post
                            So there seems to be a mass of opinion on was is/isn't the 'right' or 'best' way to clean carbs...
                            Sometimes the spray & pray method works...many times not. Ultrasonic is good, but I wouldn't rely on it as my only means of cleaning a carb thoroughly. Neither method will free chunks/debris from small circuits every time. You still may need to run some fishing line through to get out the crusties...

                            My own preference is to first clean the outside using a solvent like carb cleaner...then run wire/line through the circuits and wire brush by hand critical areas, then soak in Berryman, then brush/chase again, then spray clean with solvent, used compressed air and inspect. Repeat as necessary.

                            Whatever it takes to do it right...A schematic of the carb circuits is helpful. This way you aren't lost in 'world of wonder' because you don't really KNOW what has to be cleaned and where. When you know how the carb works, you can focus your efforts where it matters and technique doesn't mean a whole lot. Doing a 'right proper job' does.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RobertTravis View Post
                              Sometimes the spray & pray method works...many times not. Ultrasonic is good, but I wouldn't rely on it as my only means of cleaning a carb thoroughly. Neither method will free chunks/debris from small circuits every time. You still may need to run some fishing line through to get out the crusties...
                              Thanks, I was coming to the conclusion that it'd be a case of testing out a few different methods. The cleaner machine has an internal capacity of Tank 150x140x100mm (LxWxH) which should easily hold dismantled bits of the carbs, will measure them on the bike later to check.

                              Originally posted by RobertTravis View Post
                              My own preference is to first clean the outside using a solvent like carb cleaner...then run wire/line through the circuits and wire brush by hand critical areas, then soak in Berryman, then brush/chase again, then spray clean with solvent, used compressed air and inspect. Repeat as necessary.
                              Interesting you mention a wire brush, I've read a few things saying to avoid this as you can scratch the surfaces and screw them up, is this not the case from your experience?

                              Originally posted by RobertTravis View Post
                              Whatever it takes to do it right...A schematic of the carb circuits is helpful. This way you aren't lost in 'world of wonder' because you don't really KNOW what has to be cleaned and where. When you know how the carb works, you can focus your efforts where it matters and technique doesn't mean a whole lot. Doing a 'right proper job' does.
                              I'm learning as I go with this and have watched through quite a few videos on how they work so it'll be interesting when I have them off the bike to actually see what's what etc.

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