Strange starter/clutch problem?

[jetroar17]

2001 gsx600f. Finally got humpty dumpty together again after some engine work and now it won't start. The symptoms are weird though.
1. Starting in neutral: starter motor turns "normally" but engine doesn't turn with it.
2. Starting in 1st: Now the motor turns and the bike lurches, as expected.
3. Clutch is apparently stuck, bike won't roll with clutch pulled except in neutral.

Corrective action taken:
1. Adjusted clutch cable at the clutch end. Turning adjuster too far in allowed the bike to roll while in gear with clutch engaged..
2. Clutch cable is good.
3. Battery is fully charged.

The clutch/starter worked fine before the repairs (in fact it worked last week), didn't touch either of them during the repairs. Please help..

[shpielers]

Try doing a proper clutch adjustment first off, not just at the lever. The manual covers it well (available for download in the wiki). Per your #3, it sounds like it's not adjusted, or you'd be able to roll it in gear with the lever in.

What all did you do engine wise?

[jetroar17]

Basically just replaced the cylinder head. Valves were adjusted, oil added before sealing engine etc.

I will try the clutch adjustment by the book in the morning, but not sure how that would affect turning the motor in neutral? I had a stuck clutch before (adjustor lock nut came loose) but it started easily in neutral.

Also I purposely made the clutch cable way too tight just to see if adjusting would help. It would then let it roll in 1st a little without even pulling the clutch. But there was still a ton of resistance from somewhere.

Thanks for any input

[HS2020]

There is a How to on the clutch adjustment on here. It combines both the clymer and haynes repair manual steps.

[jetroar17]

Thanks for that guide. I did the clutch adjustment and even installed a new clutch lever. Sadly the problem persists. I did some reading and found it might be a problem with the starter. Opened up the cover plate and turned the starter, all 3 gears turn normally but engine does not turn.. Maybe it's the starter clutch, but then why would the engine not turn in neutral if the clutch is stuck, and only turn while in gear..? very frustrating.

I also still have a very hard time shifting, even when the clutch cable is over tightened. Last thing I will try is a jumpstart from my car, then back to the drawing board.

[jetroar17]

Long post! Just in case anyone was curious..

I confirmed that the engine is in fact being turned by the starter, even in neutral. Confirmed it by simply covering the vacuum line to the petcock and feeling the suction..

Next I thought bad battery. Charged battery to full. Battery tested 12.2V ignition off, 10.6V cranking. Coil plug hot leads (orange+white) tested 12.1V ignition/cutoff switch ON, but only 8.6V-9.2V cranking. Tried jumpstart from non-running car, no effect.

Spark tested on all plugs. All plugs fire but spark is very weak. I believe it should be blue but mine were all faint and yellow/orange. At least it's not a broken signal generator etc.

Based on this I believe there is load on the engine robbing power from the ignition, most likely a sticking starter clutch. Thanks to this awesome site and my manual I should be able to figure out how to remove and clean/lube it tomorrow. Stuck starter clutch might also explain why I can't shift anywhere except 1st and neutral?

I'll post my results when I finish the work.

[shpielers]

You need 11v at the coils when cranking, so that's definitely an issue. Temperature fix = coil relay mod, for a perm entrant fix you'll have to get friendly with that multimeter and fix/clean/repair and wires/connections where you see a voltage drop going from the coils all the way back the the battery.

[jetroar17]

I gotcha, studying wiring diagram as I type. Had/having trouble figuring out how to expose the wires and connectors for testing today, still n00bish.

But there's definitely something going on with the transmission or starter clutch. The bike won't roll with (regular) clutch pulled in while in 1st gear. Even if it started it would stall as soon as I put it in gear

I don't think it's the (regular) clutch sticking because it takes zero clutch to go from neutral to 1st, but I can't get up to 2nd no matter what I try. Bike rolls fine in neutral. Weird. But if the starter clutch is stuck the motor wouldn't even turn right..?

I still think the two issues are related, but I will try to isolate the electrics tomorrow. Bike has been sitting for over a month so maybe that's why they both popped up at once. Gah, I've missed out on enough of the nice weather already.

Thanks again for the input

[jetroar17]

So I pulled all the plugs and found 2 of them were slightly bent on one side (one of the two ground electrodes). Wasn't expecting that, so I failed to see which cylinders they came from. All plugs are brand new. I probably messed something up when I installed the new cylinder head. I assume the timing is off and the plugs are hitting something, that's why it won't start..

Also tried to free the clutch by forcing it downhill with the bike in gear and clutch pulled in. Ran out of hill.. I guess it will be easier to solve that problem once the bike can be started and warmed.

As far as the timing goes, I thought I followed the manual (and the threads) to the letter:

• Signal Generator T mark lined up (facing aft)
• Cylinders 1 and 4 at TDC (meaning I could see the piston in the plug hole on 1,4 but not 2,3)
• Camshaft notches: EX to front, IN to aft lined up parallel to the edge of the head, counted 24 links on the chain between the correct teeth/markings on the shaft gears..

As far as installing the replacement cylinder head, is there anything else I should have checked?:

• All valve clearances adjusted (with cam attached) per the manual
• Covered everything in oil before covering the cam

Starting to think doing my own work is making things worse

[arsenic]

Did you use a new or used head gasket?

[jetroar17]

Head gasket is new. No leaks if that matters

[jetroar17]

Here's a pic of a plug that's bent. Slight but noticeable. Brand new, never seen a flame, something must be hitting it. Carb inspection tonight, then back to the engine timing @ 0700 tomorrow morning!

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/1581/wAqkdH.jpg

[jetroar17]

So I finally got her up and running! Turns out the timing was in fact backwards, all electrics were fine.. Rode her uphill back to my house with no issues, but the bike is still hard to roll with the clutch pulled in while in gear. In neutral it rolls fine.

What makes it weird is that it doesn't want to move at all while in gear with the clutch pulled, even though you would think the engine would be engaged if it won't roll easily. Maybe just needs lube here and there..I'm just happy it's running, missed that sound!