What am I doing wrong? Idle related issue

[AnthomX]

I am banging my head a bit on the wall, I am not sure what I did to mess up. Long story short, I tore down my 2000 Kat 750 to change out fork fuels, random maintenance etc...

Part of what I did consisted of doing the coil relay mod, which gained +1 volt. I also readjusted the valves. The adjustments are correct, I did verify. The problem I am having though, is now it sounds terrible. It does not sound like it is running properly at all, and I am not sure where I went wrong. I attached videos, however keep in mind, that they are also running with choke, as that is the only way it stays running. Even when I adjusted the idle knob. I did do a bench sync before I placed back on the bike. My intention was to sync the carbs, but not with it running like this. Why is it bouncing around so much on the idle? Carbs were tore down a few months ago, soaked etc... I thought about tearing them down again and re-cleaning, but I wanted to get some thoughts first.

Plugs are newer. Throttle cables are fine. The only thing that I noticed, was last night the airbox was flooded with fuel. Not sure how this happened. Which reminds me, I also did electrolysis on the tank to get rid of rust.

Could not get it to flood again today. Last night I had a realization that I had forgotten to put a plug wire (#1) on. So I was not firing all cylinders. They are all firing now. This is getting a bit frustrating. I know its a long read, and thank you for reading it.

This is with the coil relay mod

http://youtu.be/I0RwwgziJ7c

This is when I returned to stock wiring

http://youtu.be/THcbwAXSAeY

and various pics that probably won't help either.

http://s100.photobucket.com/user/keystoneps/library/

[shpielers]

Have you looked for air leaks yet? That can definitely cause bouncing idles. So can not having the carbs synced yet, so it may be worth attempting a sync. Did getting #1 going again make any kind of difference?

[AnthomX]

Have you looked for air leaks yet? That can definitely cause bouncing idles. So can not having the carbs synced yet, so it may be worth attempting a sync. Did getting #1 going again make any kind of difference?

Checked for leaks, did not find any that were obvious. Honestly I could not tell you if #1 made a difference, I don't have an ear for it yet. It did not seem like it made one. Of course I could be going nuts, it just sounds off too me. Of course it has been about 2 months since I have heard it, but the idle bounce is what bothers me. You might be right about the sync. I just expected it to be like it was last time, no struggle.

[Kreylyn]

It's only running on 2 cylinders.

There MAY be an issue with the carbs, that would explain the fuel in the airbox. If the float needles are not seating, that would flood things.

My first guest would be plug wires and locations they are plugged into.

Make sure left coils is 1-4, and right is 2-3. Make sure the coil wires are firmly attached to the coils, no sparking/arcing on the wires or the boots in the head, especially down in the plug wells. Cracked plug boots could cause this problem. Also make sure each wire is soft and flexible at the plug boot, and the boot is firmly attached. If not you may need to cut back about 1" to soft material and screw the boot back on for a solid connection.

Krey

[AnthomX]

It's only running on 2 cylinders.

There MAY be an issue with the carbs, that would explain the fuel in the airbox. If the float needles are not seating, that would flood things.

My first guest would be plug wires and locations they are plugged into.

Make sure left coils is 1-4, and right is 2-3. Make sure the coil wires are firmly attached to the coils, no sparking/arcing on the wires or the boots in the head, especially down in the plug wells. Cracked plug boots could cause this problem. Also make sure each wire is soft and flexible at the plug boot, and the boot is firmly attached. If not you may need to cut back about 1" to soft material and screw the boot back on for a solid connection.

Krey

Hmm, interesting that your thought is headed where mine was with the wires, but you at least confirmed that I had them plugged right. So listening to it, you can tell its firing on just 2? I suspected something wasn't right, but I did spray the manifolds, they are all hot, except 1 and 3 seem like they might be cooler than 2 and 4 based on how quickly the water evaporated.

I dunno.... Do I maybe need to replace the coils and wires? That seems....extreme, especially considering they worked just fine before. The plugs looked good I thought. No fouling from what I could tell. You see the pictures.

My thought on the flooding is that when I didn't have cyl #1 plugged, that it filled with gas and overflowed. I may wind up pulling the carbs apart and cleanning them again, but I cannot help but think that this isn't the issue. Unless the carbonate I used in the electrolysis got in to the carbs. That I didn't think of. The exhaust did have a different smell.

[shpielers]

You didn't rinse your tank afterwards? That could mess things up yes. If that's the case, re cleaning your carbs would be a good idea. If not...well I'll leave further speculation to the experts.

[AnthomX]

You didn't rinse your tank afterwards? That could mess things up yes. If that's the case, re cleaning your carbs would be a good idea. If not...well I'll leave further speculation to the experts.

I rinsed, but I am wondering if I did not do a thorough job. I think that will be my first stop. But that won't be for a few more days..pesky work getting in the way as usual. If anyone has any further thoughts, by all means speak them.

I will keep this updated as I go through my troubleshooting.

[Kreylyn]

Hmm, interesting that your thought is headed where mine was with the wires, but you at least confirmed that I had them plugged right. So listening to it, you can tell its firing on just 2? I suspected something wasn't right, but I did spray the manifolds, they are all hot, except 1 and 3 seem like they might be cooler than 2 and 4 based on how quickly the water evaporated.

I dunno.... Do I maybe need to replace the coils and wires? That seems....extreme, especially considering they worked just fine before. The plugs looked good I thought. No fouling from what I could tell. You see the pictures.

My thought on the flooding is that when I didn't have cyl #1 plugged, that it filled with gas and overflowed. I may wind up pulling the carbs apart and cleanning them again, but I cannot help but think that this isn't the issue. Unless the carbonate I used in the electrolysis got in to the carbs. That I didn't think of. The exhaust did have a different smell.

Yes, I've heard these engines missing fire enough to recognize that is definitely the issue. Why it's missing, I can't say from sound alone.


I don't see a reason to replace wires until you find an issue. If the wires are not arcing (run the engine in low light, easier to see the arc that way) then it's not them 99% of the time. With the issues being 1-3, it's not the coils. MIGHT be individual plug/plug boots or the connection of them. Check that if you didn't.


Next step would be to double check the carbs. If you got spark, but not fuel... that would cause a problem.


Krey

[AnthomX]

Ok, update.

I rinsed the tank again. To my time this time. Also tore down the carbs and sprayed them down good. (They looked good, and I soaked them about 500 miles ago).

Rechecked wires and connections.

Refilled with fresh gas, and it sounds 100% better. (4 cyl vs 2 )

So now ready to sync it which I am going to do right now.

Oh, btw this is what the gas that I had in it when it was acting up looked like. Not sure if it was a chem reaction to the carbonate, but interesting none the less. Definitely a good reason for it to not run correctly. The dirt was already in the cup, not from the tank.

Thanks for the help.

[TRPUT]

Based on that crud, I'd also shout it a new stock fuel filter.

[AnthomX]

I synced it with relative ease, sounded good, ran good, was idleing fine. That was yesterday. (Well technically day before, but I am on a night schedule.)

Today I finally took it out to see how well it did. One of the first things I noticed was when I was in 2nd or 3rd gear WOT it would continue to rev high like it should, but power was not being transferred to the wheel. I think it is possible that I messed up on the clutch adjustment (which I forgot to mention earlier). So I will revisit that in a few days. Just wanted to throw that in there just in case it is related to the other issue I noticed which I am at a loss on.

When I would come to stops the engine is now idling high. It did not do this when I synced. I adjusted it back to 1200rpm + - when I was finished syncing and it idled fine. So why now is it idling in the 2500-3000's in neutral when a day prior it was fine? Again, no vacuum leak that I can tell. No fuel in the airbox. I do believe I am running lean due to the popping I am getting in the exhaust.

2.5 turns out on A/F, stock airbox. Slip on exhaust. DynoJet with proper jetting and settings according to manufacturer.

If needed I did take a video during ride, I can upload a piece if need be.

I am getting frustrated. I know I have to be missing something simple...I hope. Fresh 93 gas. Air filter is new, but it was part saturated in gas when I flooded due to my ignorance of forgetting a plug wire. It appears dry, smells strongly of gas. Feels like it has good air flow though, and I would not think it would have ran as well as it did during the sync.

Sorry for the lengthiness, I am drawing the picture as well as I can.

[Kreylyn]

You have a vacuum leak on at least one cylinder.

If the high rpms only happen when the bike is hot, I would expect it's heat related.

Specifically I would be looking at the engine boots. Probably need to replace the orings on them. Do NOT try to take them off when the engine is warm or hot fyi. Both the screws and engine are expanded when hot, and will tend to bind making it really hard to get them out. Wait for it to cool.

Lots of threads on how to check for vacuum leaks. Use a flmable spray and use small short bursts around all the rubber when the bike is running. Rubbing alcohol in a sprizter or spray bottle works fine for this, but you can use starter fluid too if you don't mind wasting a can. If you spray and the RPMs pick up, that's a vacuum leak.

Krey