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750f dropping a cylinder....

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  • 750f dropping a cylinder....

    Right this has me baffled... will give as much detail as possible as im struggling to find the problem.

    1991 UK spec GSX750F runs but keeps dropping a cylinder at lower rpm (-4500) as the bike had a few faults (idiot lights earth had failed engine had a oil leak and the bike kept running rough) i decided to take it off the road for a short while so i could address the faults properly.

    Over the last two weeks its had...

    Engine
    Cylinder head had to come off to replace the rusted through oil drain pipe as it was leaking quite badly.
    cylinder head was cleaned and fitted with new gasket.
    Valve clearances re-done set in the middle of the tolerance.

    Carbs
    Were fully stripped ultrasonically cleaned blasted out with a high pressure airline and rebuilt.
    Jets are clean.
    New fuel lines fitted
    All orings and seals are present and correct in good condition.
    The floats are all set at 14.6 and as far as i can tell seal correctly.
    (inverted them blew through lines and could not pass air filled with fuel and again could not blow through them)
    A/F screws at 2.5 out from completely screwed in .
    Slides are moving freely.
    Butterfly's all working correctly
    Breathers are clear
    Synced with vac gauge set all drawing an identical vacuum reading .

    Electrics
    All wiring has been checked any faults corrected earths were improved and whole loom was re wrapped with self amalgamating tape then loom tape for a hard wearing finish.

    Extra info

    Bike has coil relay mod & motobatt AGM high capacity battery and makes a healthy 11.9 while cranking.
    Fuel tank was fully resealed with a POR-15 kit


    After i rebuilt it i synced the carbs at the bikes riding temp , all was great revving fine ect.
    Went for a nice 100 mile blast around the UK lake district (beautiful place to ride) and it ran amazing.

    Rode home and parked up for the night, next morning i came out and started the bike with 50% choke fine let it tick over a few mins while i put on kit and rode to petrol station as i was down to a little over a third of a tank full.

    Refilled tank and rode off, almost immediately the bike started dropping a cylinder at lower RPM and bogging down almost like it was flooding ?
    Thinking maybe the weight of fuel in the tank might be causing some issue i drained the tank back to half full ....still bogging at low rpm.




    I am completely at my wits end with it.....given that i have spent easily 50 hours over the last month trying to sort this stupid issue out i am seriously running out of patience with the damned machine.

    HELP ?

  • #2
    Pull your plugs and make sure one isn't blacker than the other. I had a similar issue and had to set one carb a little higher than spec to keep it from fouling. It revs higher and can keep up with the extra fuel. OR....could be as simple as you got some dirt in the pilot circuit.
    Must read for carb tuners......http://www.factorypro.com/tech/tech_...m_engines.html

    Comment


    • #3
      Plugs are all fine (like a slightly golden brown) they were new in on Friday , and the fuel is both fresh and clean.

      Pulled the bowls and there is nothing in them either.


      This bike is really confusing me now...

      Comment


      • #4
        If you follow the line of events ... issue after fueling ... could be that although you paid for clean fuel, you received a little gunk or water with it. If nothing was evident in the bowls, you might need to check the various fuel circuits in the offending carb to ensure all passages are clear again.

        Other possibilities:

        Faulty plug - new plugs can fail
        Spark plug lead breaking down
        Kinked fuel line - they can hold shape cold but collapse when hot or stay collapsed after getting hot - especially if not routed carefully - would probably result in partially dropping 2 cylinders
        Blocked fuel filter - again would effect 2 cylinders (although there shouldn't be one (or 2) installed unless UK spec is different??)
        Faulty coil - 2 cyls again

        Assuming the work on the actual motor is all good:

        I'm gunna go for kinked fuel line since they were replaced recently - partly because it's an easy fix for you. This also happened to mine - ran and sounded like a gutless tractor at ALL rpm. Just pay careful attention to length, routing and tension ... and hence bend radius.

        Second choice - plug lead.
        Last edited by TRPUT; 03-02-2013, 09:54 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'd check 2 specific issues...

          1. Floats are sealing correctly. Check by using prime to fill the fuel line(s), turn prime off, pull the fuel line off, blow hard. If you can move any air at all... that's a major issue that needs to be fixed.

          2. Plug wires are in good shape, and not hard. Engine heat has a tendency to degread the last 1" or so of the wires where the boots screw on. I would pull the boots, clip back 1" to soft wire again, screw the boots back on to make sure your not loosing spark there. Also run the bike in low light (after sun is down) and look for any sparks/arcs from the wires including down into the plug wells to make sure the boots are not arcing. Arcs there can also cause you to loose a cylinder.

          Krey
          93 750 Kat



          Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

          "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

          Comment


          • #6
            Its only dropping cylinder 4 checked this by reading the exhaust header temps 1,2 & 3 all well over 100 c 4 was only a little over ambient temps.

            Swapped and 1 & 4 plug leads round its still dropping on 4. also no sparks or arcing.

            Did the blow through test on the carbs mounted on bike with full bowls ....still could not move air at all.

            If it were the fuel lines wouldn't 3 be running bad as well as 4 ?
            I dont know why but its always cylinder 4 i have issues with .

            Also completely drained the tank & ran the fuel through a fresh paper filter ...no contamination at all ... :/ im stumped .

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by fireyphoenix1989 View Post
              Its only dropping cylinder 4 checked this by reading the exhaust header temps 1,2 & 3 all well over 100 c 4 was only a little over ambient temps.

              Swapped and 1 & 4 plug leads round its still dropping on 4. also no sparks or arcing.

              Did the blow through test on the carbs mounted on bike with full bowls ....still could not move air at all.

              If it were the fuel lines wouldn't 3 be running bad as well as 4 ?
              I dont know why but its always cylinder 4 i have issues with .

              Also completely drained the tank & ran the fuel through a fresh paper filter ...no contamination at all ... :/ im stumped .
              My next step would be to do a fuel level test for the bowls. This is also simple enough.

              Start and run the bike... verify you have the issue happening. Turn off the bike. I would use a shallow container to then slide under the carb bowls and one at a time open the drain screw allowing the bowl to empty. Once empty, dump the fuel into a seperate container. At the end, you should have 4 seperate containers for each bowl all at equal fuel amounts. You have tested the needle is seating, but this tests the float is not sticking making the bowl dry out and not allowing re-fueling.

              krey
              93 750 Kat



              Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

              "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

              Comment


              • #8
                You've taken a lot of possibilities out of play if it is definitely just #4.

                Have you tested compression?

                Did you swap plugs around?

                Leak in the vacuum hose from #4 carb to the petcock???? That would be nice and easy to fix.

                Comment


                • #9
                  compression is good on all four with a good strong spark
                  I have had enough with this crap lol just gonna rebuild the carbs with brand new o-rings ordered a load of nitrile (couldn't find vitron) ones in correct sizes + new pilot plugs just to eliminate this as an issue at all

                  .... tho the o rings look good i think they may not be sealing fully ? letting fuel leak past and overfill the bowl ?


                  just hope this solves it as im completely out of ideas .


                  will try to do the test kreylin mentioned when i pull the carbs.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am f***ing livid .
                    Just spent 7 hours working on the bike.....rebuilt my carbs with brand new orings been through everything checked re checked and triple checked.

                    New orings
                    New Pilot plugs (the little rubber top hat things)
                    Floats at 14.6 mm
                    AF screws 2.5 turns out
                    carbs balanced perfectly
                    Compression is good
                    i have good strong sparks on all four

                    Bikes running like a dream .....i get half a f***ing mile and it drops back to three cylinders GIVE ME A F***ING BREAK ALREADY !!!!!


                    Just checked now cylinder 4 is running spot on and cylinder 3 is playing up ffs !!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      check the vacuum hose going to the petcock for leaks????

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Wow man, I feel for you! Hope you get it nailed and can get back to happy riding!
                        1998 Katana 750
                        1992 Katana 1100
                        2006 Ninja 250

                        2006 Katana 600 RIP - 130k miles

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          vacuum hose is in good shape and the vacuum caps are all brand new,
                          compression is good & its got fuel.
                          Good spark on all four .

                          Its should be running fine :/.

                          i wouldnt be so bothered but since getting this gsxf i have rebuild a dozen bikes for friends and at least 30 sets of carbs .....just my bike is cursed

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            just been given an idea ....


                            If the float had a tiny hole in it then its possible that the float itself is flooding then causing trouble and then emptying when i drain the carbs..... its a right mind fcuk


                            Luckily i have a few spare floats from a scrapped pair of carbs i was given (crash damaged).....its my last idea ....

                            If this dont work i honestly think im just gonna just sell the bike. Had problems with it for almost a year now :/.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I suspect the problem itself is simple - it's identifying it that is a PITA.

                              Did you by chance swap the float from carb 4 to 3 during the carb service?

                              Comment

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