[Danskat]

Just a thought...timing chain broken? That would cause ur cams and such to not allow much fluid/gas in...I think could have similar effect, no?

[TSI_shinobi]

have you compression tested this thing?
I'd check to see what your compression looks like.
surprising what that can tell you about your engine

[decdrummer]

neutral safety switch/clutch switch? (if it applies to this bike) I racked my brains till I found out this was the problem when I first got mine running.

Not to hijack, but, when I put my hand over my air cleaner hole the RPMs sky rocket.

[TRPUT]

Another thought ...

There is an earth wire on my pre that ran directly under the battery over-flow, and when the tube perished, acid leaked onto the connection which corroded and stopped me mid-roundabout!!! I can't remember if it would crank but not start or if it was completely dead, but it is a wire that is worth re-routing in any case.

[squiggy]

Air box off, nothing.

Are you trying to start the bike with the airbox off?

My experience with that is the airbox creates a purposeful air restriction. When the airbox is removed, the air/fuel ratio changes. However, by using the starting fluid, should get some reaction. Starting fluid will work through the air filter by the way.

That's been my experience with the airbox off.

[jetmerritt]

Are you trying to start the bike with the airbox off?

My experience with that is the airbox creates a purposeful air restriction. When the airbox is removed, the air/fuel ratio changes. However, by using the starting fluid, should get some reaction. Starting fluid will work through the air filter by the way.

That's been my experience with the airbox off.

He tried starter fluid on top of that though so that would omit the fuel mixture error of having the box off... I think.

[MDerrett]

Hi All,
Thanks again for the good thoughts. I checked the cam chain by popping the carbs and turning it over by hand, valves inside the intake ports work OK.
I checked the primary and secondary coils resistances and all ok, but only just found the bit in the manual about the 5/16 spark jump test so I’ll do that as well just to be sure.
Mr Trput, unlike what most Cane Toads think, there is nothing wrong with Crown, unlike the rat juice you lot drink.
(translation: “Cane toad” is the affectionate name give to residents of Queensland by New South Welshmen, Crown is the name of the best beer in Australia and therefore the world and XXXX is the name of the beer Queenslanders drink, called XXXX because most Queenslanders can’t spell. Trust me, if you had a horse whose p!ss tasted like XXXX, you’d shoot the horse).
I’ll check all the safety switches, but I was under the impression that if they failed or were disconnected, the starter wouldn’t turn and that’s the only thing that turns seems to be working.
The coil leads were marked before they were removed so they are back in the same order as when it was running, I did notice the leads were a bit dodgy where they connect to the spark plug caps so I’ll trim them as well. I tested the coil secondaries through the caps so it’s not too bad.
I sat with the wiring diagram last night and both coil orange leads are connected but I tried anyway, no difference. I will try positive and negative swaps though.
I haven’t done a compression test, the compression tester I have has the wrong size bits but I should go looking. I‘ll see what I can rig up on Saturday.
I’ve tried it with air box on and off as well, doesn’t seem to make a difference. I’ll check that earth wire, the battery drain was disconnected at some point because there is corroded splash marks on the swing arm. Some of the wiring is a bit old and tired (i did go over all the connections I could find) but I don’t remember that one.
I suppose the bit that gets me most is the contradiction of spark at a loose plug but not even a sound even with starter fluid.
I suppose I start all over again, go over the systems cooly, logically, then swear at it. I think you're right, it will be something so obvious and simple.
Thanks again
Mike

[Kreylyn]

got air, got fuel, got spark... but it won't fire all together.

Something killing the engine perhaps? I know while testing the voltage on a running bike that if you ground the neg. test lead to the frame the bike will die, as your grounding it out for the spark.

Just a possibility to double check something isn't grounded out that shouldn't be. You mentioned there was some modd to the wiring before, might double check to make sure something there isn't overlooked?

Krey

[TRPUT]

Hi All,
Thanks again for the good thoughts. I checked the cam chain by popping the carbs and turning it over by hand, valves inside the intake ports work OK.
I checked the primary and secondary coils resistances and all ok, but only just found the bit in the manual about the 5/16 spark jump test so I’ll do that as well just to be sure.
Mr Trput, unlike what most Cane Toads think, there is nothing wrong with Crown, unlike the rat juice you lot drink.
(translation: “Cane toad” is the affectionate name give to residents of Queensland by New South Welshmen, Crown is the name of the best beer in Australia and therefore the world and XXXX is the name of the beer Queenslanders drink, called XXXX because most Queenslanders can’t spell. Trust me, if you had a horse whose p!ss tasted like XXXX, you’d shoot the horse).
I’ll check all the safety switches, but I was under the impression that if they failed or were disconnected, the starter wouldn’t turn and that’s the only thing that turns seems to be working.
The coil leads were marked before they were removed so they are back in the same order as when it was running, I did notice the leads were a bit dodgy where they connect to the spark plug caps so I’ll trim them as well. I tested the coil secondaries through the caps so it’s not too bad.
I sat with the wiring diagram last night and both coil orange leads are connected but I tried anyway, no difference. I will try positive and negative swaps though.
I haven’t done a compression test, the compression tester I have has the wrong size bits but I should go looking. I‘ll see what I can rig up on Saturday.
I’ve tried it with air box on and off as well, doesn’t seem to make a difference. I’ll check that earth wire, the battery drain was disconnected at some point because there is corroded splash marks on the swing arm. Some of the wiring is a bit old and tired (i did go over all the connections I could find) but I don’t remember that one.
I suppose the bit that gets me most is the contradiction of spark at a loose plug but not even a sound even with starter fluid.
I suppose I start all over again, go over the systems cooly, logically, then swear at it. I think you're right, it will be something so obvious and simple.
Thanks again
Mike

Bwahaha! Again!

Yeh Mike, they do make that XXXX stuff up here. Shame really they got the factory going again after the floods. I actually suspect it is just bottled muddy, polluted Brisbane River water anyway. I don't touch the stuff. The ONLY Aussie beers worth drinking come from Tasmania, but I quite like the European style. Haven't you southerners realised yet that Crown Lager is just VB in a pretty bottle??? And the only good thing about VB is it contains alcohol!!!

Oh yeh ... the bike.

When you get spark at the plugs, is that earthing on the engine or chassis? Check you have a good earth to the plug seats / head. Presence of spark with plugs removed probably indicates the leads, original relay and coil wiring are OK. Is there a reason there is no spark due to lack of earth once the plug is inserted???? Given you have external spark and fuel (albeit in a spray) seems the only other culprit could be a vacuum leak. The connection I referred to runs right under the battery overflow beside the battery, just a few cms from the earth terminal on the smaller earth wire. Also pretty sure both leads to the coil are positive - one from timing and one from source (relay) - earth is the outer plug.

Good luck!

[MDerrett]

I must admit I am partial to the odd Tasmanian drop, but Crown suits me, doesn't give me chemical headaches.
Just spent 3 hours and managing to stump noty just me but two mates as well.
Still no joy. I dug up from in the bowls of my old test gear box a Champion spark tester thingy, looks like a pen that you place over the elads and you can see a bright red induction flash if the plugs are firing, which they are.
Ran an additional earth straight from the battery to the engine case, no joy.

Giving it up for the night (it'll take a half hour soak in the bath to get the small of ether, cigarettes and beer out of me before the wife will let me back in the bedroom). Looks like the only thing I'm gonna get my leg over tonight is my pushbike.

Back to scratch tomorrow. Exhaust pipes off just in case I left a bag in the exhaust, check the valve timing and ignition timing. Then do the carbs again, for the xth time (lost count now).

Thanks again

Mike

[MDerrett]

Hi,

Sorry I haven't posted anything more, been away for work and haven't had a chance to do anything until last night.
Went back and checked the valve timing and found it out by two teeth (exhaust cam one tooth forward and intake one tooth backwards). The PO had said that he changed the camchain but he works for a bike shop so I assumed (and we all know what THAT means......) it was right. Fortunately, nothing bent or damaged.
I'll gap the valves again just to be sure and then put the carbs back on tonight and give it a kick.
Hopefully it'll run.

BR
Mike

[TRPUT]

Hahaha! Looks like Nanskat gets the beer for identifying a possible cam chain problem.

Sounds like the sort of service I used to pay for at Lame Mojo (Teammoto). Big bucks for more problems. Eventually tired of paying good money for a service and then doing it myself again anyway.

Hopefully a little fiddling and resetting of clearances and you'll have yourself a going machine. Look on the bright side - you've learned a lot about her in a short time!

[MDerrett]

It Works!

After heaven only knows how much stick from mates, wife, kids etc I finally cracked it.

The free beer goes to Mr Kreylyn, for being the closest. I've only ever seen this once before (in a previous life I owned two "portable power" battery stores) but what it turned out to be was the battery.
I came home the other night and noticed that the key was on but the lights were out so I assumed I had flattened the battery. I still had some dry charged bike batteries under my shelf for my GS1000S project bike so when I did the service work first up I flashed one up (same size, vent on the other side), didn't cost, need to be reliable, hey won't hurt, replaced the old one.
Put the new, now flat battery on my 7 amp charger for about an hour . but no joy only 8 volts. Odd I thought (by this time the battery is stinking hot) got out the big 30amp mother and lit that up. An hour later, battery almost glowing hot, still only 8 volts. Something obviously wrong.
Got the old battery out, connected it up for an overnight charge.
Next morning scratching head thought I'd check the new battery. 12.4 volts. Nooo, that can't be right. Dug out the old Italian battery checker I have. It's basically a voltmeter with a humungeous heating coil in parrallel. Connected it up and 12 volts for about 5 seconds and then dropped straight to about 7Volts when the discharge caused the battery to get warm. Leave it for an hour, checked it again, same thing.
What it is is a crack in the battery frame. All is well when things are cool, when it gets warm the frame inside opens up and you loose some plates from the grid, dropping the voltage. As I tried to crank the bike the battery got warm, voltage dropped and no coil power and no pops or pharts but still enough to turn over the starter.
Installed the old battery, quick spray of "Start ya Barstard" and away it went. It postively growls and barks (idle too lean at 1 3/4 turns ) but I can fix that.
Thanks for all your input, and I owe Mr Kreylyn a beer.
Might even buy Mr Trput one too, if he ever comes down, 'cause I am just feeling soooo good!

Mike

[TRPUT]

Glad you finally nailed it Mike. Hopefully you can now get out and enjoy it! See - it was something simple!

I'm heading south for a month in October / November to take in the entire coast from Adelaide to Brisbane (including the GOR), plus a scratch around the Snowys and Murray. You might just get to buy me that beer! Of course - I would repay the favour - possibly more than once!

[Kreylyn]

Thanks for all your input, and I owe Mr Kreylyn a beer.
Might even buy Mr Trput one too, if he ever comes down, 'cause I am just feeling soooo good!

Mike

I so hope some day I can come over the pond between us and take you up on that.

Krey