[Patch's]

Forgive me for what I am about to say, but I am old enough to say it and your likely right to disagree with it, seat belts please, PERSONALLY I don't think the mufflers have much to do with it very often anyways not for the street, just my opinion, now if you managed more air in a little more compression don't forget the 1:1 so more gas for the fuel hands down combustion changes and flow follows exhaust too, I know I know what a ridiculous thing to say..
Jason the o-rings flatten and loose there efficiency, I do appreciate your ambition and sticking to resolving the issue, think if I were in your shoes I would drop the main needle - at that rpm your past what the pilot will adjust the fuel has to be coming from somewhere it just seems that the carb setup is wrong? Needless to say we all assume you set the throttle plates correctly at the start right?
imagine paying for a set of pipes expecting more power and zip, why? "of course they breath too well - you have to change the jets to release that power", smart right to get the HP from the muffler you need to re-jet, if we re-jet do we not have more bang assuming we have enough o2 in the mix but where did we change the compressed volume that we need to exhaust, same stoke - same piston - same chamber same CC, I must be missing something
Don't miss understand I'm all for both and anything that helps a carb deliver it's potential is generally a good investment, the muffler is easy to feed the piston will do that based on stoke and valve timing.
just an opinion

[jasonleahey]

think if I were in your shoes I would drop the main needle - at that rpm your past what the pilot will adjust the fuel has to be coming from somewhere it just seems that the carb setup is wrong?
ok so you would try droping from 2 from teh top to 3 from the top? or 1 from the top to drop it in the bowl more?
Needless to say we all assume you set the throttle plates correctly at the start right? sorry im lost what are throttle plates never mind just looked it up ... yes they were bench sync'd and ive synced em on the bike even though it was reving high


also all these things were on the bike when i bought it .......

[jasonleahey]

anyone have any other thoughts ?

and just so i know what im lookin mabye a pic of a warn o ring bec the ones i have dont look terrible to me but dont know what im lookin at ... i know cracked etc but just flat? ( one in between the boot and the engine block)....

[jasonleahey]

anyone know of any other part sites .. bike bandit has my o rings but on order ... kinda want em soon

[Patch's]

Hi Jason, sorry I was busy most of the day so just logging on.
Explain my thoughts here about the needle it is not something we would normally do but we can't see what you see so basically the needle acts like an adjustable valve but on a CV carb it actuates by vacuum -sliding up against a spring which helps to control osculation, rise speed and should keep the needle seated when the vacuum is low allowing other segments of the carburetor to operate in there assigned ranges! Sometimes the needle will ware sometimes the seat will ware when this happens gas can leak past and up into the barrel of the carb past the throttle plate there for you have a carb that you can not control! If you re-jet a carb even if you follow the directions you can still get into to trouble but they want to sell the kits and just a kit cost less than the kit and some one who has the experience to install and tune it, for example Arsenic offered a difference size then you mentioned yesterday, that is an example of working a lot with carbs, makes sense right he would know, an other part of the "magic of re-jetting has to do with the slide spring for the main needle, holy moly that's a game you don't want to play with, with out guidance and shared experience, SO if you drop the needle you are in effect pushing back on the spring increasing the the pressure on the needle to seat!!! So you move the clip up all the way, why all the way is because we want to rule it out as a leak BUT if that needle is bent or worn unevenly it will not seat so look at it lightly press in the middle while it lies flat on the table and see if it roles with out jumping, notice it tapered that is again because it is a "plug" a "stopper" like a plug for a sink when it's parked and seated, the further the vacuum lifts it the bigger the gap and the more gas can get around it!
Remember we are trying to get the engine to idle and we can't see what you see so any improvement in any of these actions leads us closer to finding the problem.
The o-rings are simple they are round when there new, meaning if you cut the o-ring to look at the ends it is round, compression, heat and time flatten them so that's it there spent, when you remove an intake you change the o-ring unless it's a couple of months old and it wasn't stuck to the head other wise change it.
Remember CV carburetor - Constant Velocity it works with vacuum so if your engine is idling high that vacuum is going to draw out gas from a malfunctioning area of your carb the carb has to be setup to work as it is designed to control the air and gas to match fuel to the rpm a leaky carb needs to be methodically disassemble one at a time and reassembled one at a time and that's why it pays to have it done or have some teach you, one more thigh if you dissemble an old carb and change every part that comes with the kit, clean it top to bottom set the pilot, set the throttle plates (and I still like to know where you set them too, odd you haven't mentioned it?? you said you synced them but to what and no way you could sink them on the bike running in this condition's, I have a special tool not many use and I wouldn't be able to, I could worsen the situation by trying!) anyways the question is, are those carbs guarantied to work, you know if you use the complete kit? if yes why if not why you don't have to answer but enough to know there's more to it than just kit stuff.
sorry for the long post

You can find o-rings locally too, just take the intake and old one to maybe a bearing supplier if they don't have it and they likely do they will tell you where to get them, it's not hard.

[foxox]

anyone have any other thoughts ?

and just so i know what im lookin mabye a pic of a warn o ring bec the ones i have dont look terrible to me but dont know what im lookin at ... i know cracked etc but just flat? ( one in between the boot and the engine block)....

I had a vacuum leak and here's how my boot orings looked:

http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l127/searedice/1989%20Suzuki%20Katana%20600/Boot%20O-Ring%20Replacement/

Apparently too flat like that. If you're going to replace them, you might consider replacing the boot bolts: http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.p...ight=bolt+size

anyone know of any other part sites .. bike bandit has my o rings but on order ... kinda want em soon

ronayers.com, cheapcycleparts.com
I think I got mine from ronayers; I think it took a while but I ordered a bunch of other parts at the same time so I don't know what held it up. You can call these places to ask what they have in stock.


Anyway, the orings haven't totally fixed my vacuum problems, though it did improve. I just tried sealing the airbox-side boots to the airbox and have yet to see if that helped any.

[jasonleahey]

well that maybe the issue right there i think you old ones are more round than mine are ... hahaha hopefully that will fix it .. im on backorder like a mother through bikebandit so im trying to do some shopping now

[arsenic]

Ronayers.com uses the actual p/n. Just write down the part number, and take it to your local dealership. Tell them you need 4 of that part number.

[Patch's]

Jason you can lightly coat the bottom of the intake pipes with the black MrGastket you will need to install them with light pressure let the sealant dry about 4 hours then torque them wait till the next day (ya right) and that will hold you till you get the new ones, leave the old o-ring in.

[jasonleahey]

unfortunately the Germans dont have mr gasket .. i know exactly what your talkin about ... they just dont sell it ... but the new ones are on the way should be here within the week

i replaced the main jet to the 2 original jets 112.5 etc .. question is do i need to move the floats back to 13mm ? or leave em at 14.5 ish ?

as or right now just the mains did nothing to fix it and i timed the rpm rev up and have some more clarity ... it takes around 10 mins to warm up the bike enough to start this but might have a different opinion about whats going on .... seems to be idiling ok ( still not great) stumbles a little but ok ...... but as soon as i give it a little throttle it goes up and stays up ( is this still the vacuum leak ) new o rings are on the way but just want to make sure were still on the right path

[Patch's]

"seems to be idiling ok ( still not great) stumbles a little but ok ...... but as soon as i give it a little throttle it goes up and stays up"
Yes Jason that's not the same and now makes a bit more sense. forget adjusting the main needles and hunt for and repair any potential vacuum leaks then with the help of the guys you can get the mixture adjusted and re-post your jet sizes to be sure we now what your using in all 4 carbs.

[jasonleahey]

ok .. i have the 115 out 112 in (stock ) and new cylinder head boot orings on the way (they were flat and flush with the boot) .. is there anywhere else i should look ? any other o rings that may need to be replaced while im at it ?

air box is on (doesnt seem to have any cracks and has the drain hose on the bottom with the plug in it) all the rings are screwed down on the carbs and the boots themselves seem to be in good condition

[Patch's]

yes there are other places to look for leaks, this stuff comes about by not knowing and following a step by step procedure when rebuilding the carbs you end up with and uncoordinated miss match set of headaches. there are seals at the throttle shafts next time you have it ruining the bike you can spray some cleaner around the area and see if the rpm changes or them them apart now and replace them now.

[jasonleahey]

end of what shafts?