Idling Problem again..

[zuki-rider]

This may get long I was and still am having idling problems with my 95 GSX-600, so here is what all I have done and checked.

Cleaned Carbs, Emulsion tubes, AF Needle, Pilot Jets, Main Jets, Measured and Adjusted Floats, Needles are on the 3rd clip. All O-Rings are accounted for and in the proper place.

New Fuel Line and Filters, Fuel Petcock is working.

Checked for Vaccum Leaks around intake boots.

New Air Filter

All New Spark Plugs are gapped to specs.

All Spark Plugs have Fire.

Took the head off and checked the valves, all were within specs except Cylinder number 4 exaust valves were real loose.

Carbs 1 and 2 are synced together.

Could not get carbs 3 and 4 synced other than visually.

After Cleaning the Carbs completely and checking all of the above I was able to get it running good enough to check the plugs and see how the AF mixture is, Cylinders 1,2,3 are perfect with a light tan color, Cylinder number 4 plug is shiney clean with fuel/oil on it, not sure which. Also when I touch the headers after warming it up, 1,2,3 are hot to touch but #4 I can put my whole hand on it and hold it there, thats how I found out it was #4 giving me problems, this would also explain why I could not get carbs 3 and 4 synced together with the DIY fluid method. When I took the AF screws out of the carbs the first time I paid attention to how many turns they were out and the screw on Carb 4 was leaned all the way in.. now I know why!

Here is what I have narrowed it down to
Valves?

Or compression?

Could be plug? or ignition, but I have checked and double checked the fire and changed plugs? This stuff is not hard it`s just a process of elimination!

I know I should have adjusted the valves before I did all this but I know that once the engine heats up they will loosen up a bit and I didnt know at the time whether it was valves, compression, or carbs causing it to idle rough. I need to adjust the valves next but these valves do not have screw type adjustments, I read somewhere about having to shim valves? but I havent been able to find clear instructions on exactly how to do it and what tools I will need. Have any of you ever adjusted valves like this before or can you send me a link on how to do this?

Here is a short video of it running
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVtjMpkYXn4"]YouTube - 600cc idling[/ame]
Here is a pic of the valves, should have taken a closer one..

[steves]

What's the inside of your tank look like? Get a mirror and take a look.

If your tank has scale/rust in it, that will cause running problems as the scale gets sucked down into the carbs.

Also you have shim under bucket valves, not the screw adjusters. You'll need to take the shims out and measure them, plus the clearance to do an adjustment.

[edrawba]

Sounds like the exhaust valves on #4 may be leaking, causing a loss of compression. Adjust your valves and see what that does.

[zuki-rider]

after much more searching and reading I understand what I`m up against now with shim under bucket valves oh well I will take the head back off sunday afternoon and see if I can get them adjusted right. Thanks for the graph Steve that is REALLY helpful! it really doesnt sound all that hard to do this just very, very, time consuming... as far as the tank is concerned, that is the only thing the previous owner before me did that was right he put some kind of epoxy liner in it so it doesnt have any rust at all, I have looked in it to make sure. Hey I really appreciate the help and I`ll keep you`all posted on what the outcome is with the valves and compression!

[zuki-rider]

just wanted to give you fellows an update, it dawned on me today to check the hose diagram and make sure I had everything hooked up right, I had hooked the hose`s back up like they came off and the petcock vaccum hose was attached to the top of carb #4 instead of the side she runs alot better now that it`s hooked up right! It idles alot better also! I think all Ive need to do now is tweak the carbs AF needles and sync them perfect and I should be good to go! I`m still going to check the valves again before doing all that though. Thanks to you guys, the Wiki and the search button I couldnt have learned all I have this fast without this site!

[car0linab0y]

can you take a pic of where you have your lines hooked up? I have a similar problem. bike won't idle without me holding the choke open until it warms up.

[zuki-rider]

can you take a pic of where you have your lines hooked up? I have a similar problem. bike won't idle without me holding the choke open until it warms up.

sure, here is a pic I took of mine


and here is the link to the wiki diagram that shows where all the hose are supposed to go.

http://katriders.com/wiki/index.php5?title=Hose_Connections

[zuki-rider]

I was off work this afternoon and was able to work on the bike some more, first I took the carbs back off and checked the jets, one pilot jet was clogged again. Also after reading another thread I realized I had measured the floats wrong.. so fixed that. Then I proceeded to check the valves.. whew what a job! Most were within spec but a few were out .001mostly the exhaust valves, the intake valves for cylinder #4 were .002 and the 1 intake valve on cylinder #1 measured. 003. My question is .001 out going to make that much difference? I plan on changing the shims for cylinder #4 and the one valve on #1.

[zuki-rider]

Another update! on thursday I talked to Ben at Team Charlotte Motorsports and I was asking him if they sold seperate shims for shim under bucket valves? he said no but bring what you have up here and I`ll swap out the sizes for you! SWEET!! these guys were super nice and very helpful they will definately get my buisness from now on! if any of you riders in the charlotte area need help look these guys up!

So I brought the valves home but didnt get a chance to put them in till Sat., putting them in was easy once I learned the rocker arms will slide over to the side for any of you willing to tackle this job make sure you plug any holes in the head before you start removing and installing shims, I dropped one shim and it scared me because I couldnt find it for a second.. after that incidence I plugged every hole I could find! that will ruin your day if you drop a shim into the bottom end of the engine!

Got the shims in and everything else put back together, had to tweak the carbs alittle more and fired her up! it sounded different with the valves where they were supposed to be! I`m not sure what kinda slip on exaust it has but it doesnt look like stock? the carbs had 134 main jets in it so I left it like that and it seems dead on. All 4 cylinders are burning fuel like they are supposed to now and all the headers are the same temperature. I had to sync the carbs one more time which was easy and once I synced both sides together she started purring! this thing runs like a dream now, idles good and has no lag in the throttle response, whew all that work finally paid off! I want to say thanks for all the help I`ve gotten on here I couldnt have done it without this site!