valve adjustment woes, help from the experienced please?

[MIBagentQ]

I give up. I cant figure out why my valves keep clicking/clacking/ticking. I'm sure it's not the cam chain since I didnt touch it and the sounds dont go away when the bike warms up. The more throttle I give, the louder the sound gets. I used a stethoscope and I cant isolate it to a single cylinder nor can I figure out if it is my intake valves or exhaust valves. It's the third time I've taken off my valve cover and readjusted my valves according to my haynes manual. The second time around I didnt close the valve cover properly and smoke was coming out of the gap, now I put on a bunch of gasket maker and retightened it and there is a bit of smoke but I cant tell where it's coming from (It almost seems like its coming from where the four exhaust headers come into one).

Can anybody help? is the clacking noise more likely to be from loose valves or valves too tight? Any other reasons why there might be a clicky clacky noise?

I'm almost ready to give up and let a mechanic take a look at it but I dont want to if I dont have to.

[mystahagy]

Replacing my exhaust gaskets helped with mine. It still has that noise you describe, but it's quieter now.

[Black_peter]

Well could be:
low oil pressure
sticking valves

Are you sure it's not piston slap?
Or rod knocking?

[Black_peter]

Replacing my exhaust gaskets helped with mine. It still has that noise you describe, but it's quieter now.

Dang!!!
I forgot about that..
Good one Mr.

[Teh_K]

I thought the noise is caused by valves being on the loose end of the spec - which, from what I understand, is better than them being too tight.

So... I would think that the noise is normal if you adjust to the loose end of the spec.

[MIBagentQ]

The noise is pretty noticable so I wouldnt consider it being normal.

I just readjusted the valves for the THIRD time, this time closer to the tighter end of the spec but the clacking noise is still there. I've decided that it most likely isnt the valve clearances.

How can I tell if it is due to low oil pressure, sticking valves, piston slap or rod knocking? Keeping in mind that this sound only started AFTER I tried my first valve adjustment, what else could I have screwed up?

[MIBagentQ]

Some pictures, I dont know if they show anything but I'm getting desperate here...

[katana bob]

how can you be sure its not the timing chain? i've read alot about the tensioner spring failing. if you're sure the valves are in spec then it has to be something else. when you rechecked the valves were they still within spec? if not you might be adjusting them wrong or torqueing them wrong.

[mystahagy]

Hey here's another strange suggestion. Check your spark plug wires. In another instance I had a cracking that increased with rpm. It ended up being a voltage leak and it popped like a little lightning bolt. Take a good look under there when it's dark. One of my plug wires wiggled a little loose at the coil, and instead of going through the wire the current jumped out. It was a little light show in there. Good luck, I feel your pain.

Question, is it more of a single pop with every revolution? I'm not sure what a "clicky-clacky" noise is.

[trinc]

Keeping in mind that this sound only started AFTER I tried my first valve adjustment, what else could I have screwed up?

are the cams in the right position when you're making your adjustment ?

it's all here:

http://www.pacifier.com/~trinc/katana/valve.htm

tim

[MIBagentQ]

how can you be sure its not the timing chain? i've read alot about the tensioner spring failing. if you're sure the valves are in spec then it has to be something else. when you rechecked the valves were they still within spec? if not you might be adjusting them wrong or torqueing them wrong.

I figure it's not the timing chain and tensioner spring because I pulled on the cam chain but there isnt any slack on it. Also the valves were still in spec when I checked them again.

It also probably isnt the spark plug wires being loose as I've taken them on and off each time I redid the valve adjustment and I dont think I'd connect them loosely all three times. Plus using the stethoscope the sound is coming from the valve head and not from the ignition coils.

Keeping in mind that this sound only started AFTER I tried my first valve adjustment, what else could I have screwed up?

are the cams in the right position when you're making your adjustment ?

it's all here:

http://www.pacifier.com/~trinc/katana/valve.htm

tim

Yea, I followed your guide as well as my manual, the cams were in the right position each time I did the valve adjustment.

I THINK that the click/clack is in sync with crank shaft revolution and not twice per revolution. I have a timing gun at home which I may try later to make sure but I dont see it being any thing else other than something in the valve train

[The CyberPoet]

I figure it's not the timing chain and tensioner spring because I pulled on the cam chain but there isnt any slack on it. Also the valves were still in spec when I checked them again.

Remember that like all metal items, the cam chain gets looser as it heats up and elongates. Checking the cam tensioner spring assembly as long as you are already this far down into the bike isn't very hard.

I didn't see anything in the pictures that indicates any damages (no excessive cam lobe wear, etc.). If you want to be particularly thorough, you might want to check the torque on each of the bolts that hold the cams in place, and check both inside the cylinders themselves (scope) and inspect the valve springs very closely (this engine uses two springs, one inside the other -- if an inner one snapped, that might be the source of all the issues).

Q: Did you sync your carbs after the valve adjustment?
Q: Have you noticed any loss of power?
Q: Did you remove the exhaust headers or mid-pipe at any point?
Q: Did you change the jetting & carb settings at any point?
Q: Are you feeling the excess noise as extra vibration as well?
Q: Are you sure you got all the rubber rings at the spark plug holes for the valve cover aligned right?
Q: Have you checked the horn? (seriously -- it sits on flat stock that, if the horn support assembly moves, could cause it to hit against the block or other parts with each detonation).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[MIBagentQ]

I figure it's not the timing chain and tensioner spring because I pulled on the cam chain but there isnt any slack on it. Also the valves were still in spec when I checked them again.

Remember that like all metal items, the cam chain gets looser as it heats up and elongates. Checking the cam tensioner spring assembly as long as you are already this far down into the bike isn't very hard.

I didn't see anything in the pictures that indicates any damages (no excessive cam lobe wear, etc.). If you want to be particularly thorough, you might want to check the torque on each of the bolts that hold the cams in place, and check both inside the cylinders themselves (scope) and inspect the valve springs very closely (this engine uses two springs, one inside the other -- if an inner one snapped, that might be the source of all the issues).

Q: Did you sync your carbs after the valve adjustment?
Q: Have you noticed any loss of power?
Q: Did you remove the exhaust headers or mid-pipe at any point?
Q: Did you change the jetting & carb settings at any point?
Q: Are you feeling the excess noise as extra vibration as well?
Q: Are you sure you got all the rubber rings at the spark plug holes for the valve cover aligned right?
Q: Have you checked the horn? (seriously -- it sits on flat stock that, if the horn support assembly moves, could cause it to hit against the block or other parts with each detonation).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

Q: Did you sync your carbs after the valve adjustment? yes
Q: Have you noticed any loss of power? i think so
Q: Did you remove the exhaust headers or mid-pipe at any point? [/b] nope [/b]
Q: Did you change the jetting & carb settings at any point? nope
Q: Are you feeling the excess noise as extra vibration as well? yup, more vibration
Q: Are you sure you got all the rubber rings at the spark plug holes for the valve cover aligned right? didnt touch them but probably
Q: Have you checked the horn? (seriously -- it sits on flat stock that, if the horn support assembly moves, could cause it to hit against the block or other parts with each detonation). horn should be fine, custom fabricated bracket to hold fiamm highway blaster

well, I took it to my mechanic to have a listen yesterday and he says it sounds like every other old oil-cooled gixxer engine he's heard and to not worry about it unless the sound gets louder.

now the sound isnt overly loud, it's just ... its there when it wasnt before.

HOWEVER, the bike does have 51000 km (well, 51001 this morning) and I do not believe the previous owner ever did a valve adjustment and this is my first so....maybe they were just too tight to begin with?

[The CyberPoet]

Q: Did you sync your carbs after the valve adjustment? yes
Q: Have you noticed any loss of power? i think so
Q: Did you remove the exhaust headers or mid-pipe at any point? nope
Q: Did you change the jetting & carb settings at any point? nope
Q: Are you feeling the excess noise as extra vibration as well? yup, more vibration
Q: Are you sure you got all the rubber rings at the spark plug holes for the valve cover aligned right? didnt touch them but probably
Q: Have you checked the horn? (seriously -- it sits on flat stock that, if the horn support assembly moves, could cause it to hit against the block or other parts with each detonation). horn should be fine, custom fabricated bracket to hold fiamm highway blaster

The FIAMM highway blaster on mine tapped against the frame when I first installed it...

well, I took it to my mechanic to have a listen yesterday and he says it sounds like every other old oil-cooled gixxer engine he's heard and to not worry about it unless the sound gets louder.

now the sound isnt overly loud, it's just ... its there when it wasnt before.

HOWEVER, the bike does have 51000 km (well, 51001 this morning) and I do not believe the previous owner ever did a valve adjustment and this is my first so....maybe they were just too tight to begin with?

If you noticed a significant loss of power (say 8% or more), then you really need to investigate this thoroughly (scope the inside of the combustion chambers, closely examine every valve spring and check every valve & valve guide)... It could be as simple as carbon build-up that was making a perfect seal not doing so any more (in which case, clearing out the carbon by using high-detergent fuels or fuel-system cleaners would be wise).

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet