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Bad Gas????

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  • Scott
    started a topic Bad Gas????

    Bad Gas????

    2000 Katana 600cc bone stock 5800 miles: I got the carbs cleaned and full tune up, oil and filter last week, so the bikes been running smooth since then. Although recently, I put in Shell 93 Octane about 3 days ago. Twice actually. Last time was yesterday but a different station.
    The bike runs fine for awhile, but every now and then, the bike starts tp slow down after 60 - -80 mph in 6th gear, and then sputter till 45. It stays around 45 even if I down shift to try to pick up speed, then if I slow down and go to first it cuts off and I got to rev the hell out of it to get it to start up.
    Took it back to the shop and the guy suggested it was bad gas and even test rode it for a few minutes. Of course the problem didnt kick in when he rode it, but sure enouhg later on that day it happened again.
    How long if this is bad gas, will it take to flush it out of the system, or do I have to reclean the carbs now?
    Or is it something else maybe they did something wrong?

  • Scott
    replied
    "Running it on starting fluid that long might be a different story..."

    Thats what I meant about almost blowing the engine. We couldnt tell it was the fuel line first as we couldn't get the GAS TANK off to fix the problem. But we emptied out the whole can of starter fluid to get it home.

    "The clamps that are on the fuel line are just little ring-snap clamps, and those are fine. Proper screw-down clamps actually tend to dig into the rubber and do more damage."

    No I know what the stock clamps look like. They were still on there. But there was another newer clamp they put on there that was even weaker and narrower than the stock ones and damn near was almost off. It looked weaker than a hairpin.

    "And as for the rest of it (and this may sound harsh, but it should be taken like a dad dressing-down a teen: there's a lesson here) -- a number of us told you what it could be, what it was, and yet you choose to ride it anyway without fixing it (or even investigating further). I'm just glad it was your fuel and not your brakes that were acting up, or you'd be posting from a hospital bed probably. Your two mile push was your punishment (self-inflicted)."

    No it wasn't imo. As soon as I heard the initial problem, which was friday night / around 4am, I brought it immediatly to the shop the very next morning. They test rode it for over 5 minutes on the highway and lucky for them the crimped line didn't act up at the time of the highway test run (problem would fluctuate on and off). So they deduced it was the gas. Of course to me, their opinion > than mine since theyre professionals so why would I question it. But theres no excuse for them stripping the gas tank bolt and leaving it like that or putting on the fuel line WRONG and leaving a kink in it. Which I would have never found out hadnt it been for my friends cutter. Not to mention they pretty much blew me off with my suggestion of leaving the bike there anyway on Saturday which I was willing to do. They just wanted me out of there so they could work on the newer arrivals that day instead of fixing my problem. Only reason I even rode it home was it was at my friends house the whole weekend and he lives 5 miles away from me on a straight away.

    Thanks for the help though in these posts.

    Leave a comment:


  • The CyberPoet
    replied
    Originally posted by Scott
    We could have blown the engine hadn't we found out. It was really running lean.
    The odds of you blowing the engine due to running too lean from the kinked fuel line were about the same as you picking a winning lottery ticket this week. Running it on starting fluid that long might be a different story...

    The clamps that are on the fuel line are just little ring-snap clamps, and those are fine. Proper screw-down clamps actually tend to dig into the rubber and do more damage.

    And as for the rest of it (and this may sound harsh, but it should be taken like a dad dressing-down a teen: there's a lesson here) -- a number of us told you what it could be, what it was, and yet you choose to ride it anyway without fixing it (or even investigating further). I'm just glad it was your fuel and not your brakes that were acting up, or you'd be posting from a hospital bed probably. Your two mile push was your punishment (self-inflicted).

    Glad you got it resolved. Next time, be pro-active: bikes are dangerous enough without mechanical issues -- no need to stack the odds against yourself. If it had bogged out on you at a point when you desperately needed to get out of the way of something, it might have turned out far worse.

    Cheers
    =-= The CyberPoet

    Leave a comment:


  • Scott
    replied
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!

    The bike died on me last night at 4am on the way home!
    I was going crazy! I was stranded and had to push the damn bike nearly 2 miles to the nearest gas station, because I thought it ran outta gas or the battery was flooded. I nearly tipped the bike over from exhaustion at one point I was so tired.
    Eventually I left it overnight at the gas station, and in the morning, I even tried jumping it with my car. no luck.
    So I called my friend and picked him up and we took a look at it today.
    We didnt know what was wrong with it. Our main thought was the carbs were synced wrong and the floats maybe were stuck. The shop was closed of course, and I must of emptied a whole can of starting fluid to keep the bike moving on the way to his house! Kept dying every 100 feet, and we would have to take the seat off and respray with the fluid just to get it going again! We even blew out the main fuse trying to start it too much. Luckily I had spares. Finally we got it to the house, removed the left fairing and gas tank and finally...


    You were right. The answer is:

    B) "Kinked fuel line between the petcock and the carbs"

    (Fuel Starvation).







    They put the fuel line hose BACKWARDS and it was crimped!
    THAT'S why the engine was starving for fuel!
    Nothing to do with 'bad gas' or water in the gas tank! (the mechanic's opinions)
    The stupid mechanics SLAPPED on my gas tank so FAST, they STRIPPED one of the bolts holding it down, so it made it almost impossible to even remove the tank to find out the problem.
    We had to saw off the stripped bolt. It got so hot it flew and hit my friend in the chest and burned him. The line was so crimped, barely any fuel was getting to the motor. And they also put on some weak bogus clamp on one of the hoses that looked like it was about to fall off.
    I can't believe those mechanics were so careless. We could have blown the engine hadn't we found out. It was really running lean. They probably would have overlooked it had I brought it back, and just tried to reclean the carbs again thinking I clogged them up again with 'bad gas'.
    I was so pissed today, I don't even know what to say to that shop this week about this. Screwed up my whole weekend.
    but glad we finally found the problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cbass
    replied
    Why don't you just stick a flash light in the gas tank and take a look see!




    It is not that hard and you may find that it is a problem that needs to be addressed even if it does not relate to what is going on now.

    Man you are stubborn

    Leave a comment:


  • Scott
    replied
    Well my bike died on me last night so I had to park it in a lot by a shopping mall. Sucks. I was riding in 5th gear and it just started to go slower and slower till I had no more pull at all and it cutt off.
    My friend for some reasons thinks they synced the carbs wrong and has offered to take a look at it. He's had bikes for years, mainly the Gixxers.
    As far as the rust in the tank issue, I've been riding the bike since June, and this week is the first ever type of experience that I've had these issues. I would think that these issues would have shown up earlier since I've been riding it practically everyday to work and on weekends. Once or twice early on I got caught in the rain, and one or two days I had the bike out on a hot day for about 4 hours. No issues on either one of those days. The only issue I had before I sent it n was the sticky idle (staying at 2k- 3k when revving it up at idle). Other than that, it was just the frozen choke cable which I replaced. But if it is water in the tank/rust, It's just wierd to me that it would act up now, especially after I got the bike tuned at the shop.

    Leave a comment:


  • The CyberPoet
    replied
    Originally posted by Scott
    Good info thanks guys.

    What did you mean by 'starvation issues'? Oil? because that was changed last week and I dont wheelie or anything.
    He means fuel starvation (back to items A-D in my first post), not oil starvation.

    Originally posted by Scott
    The shop offered me to bring it in again if the problem continues. I think they'll probably try to reclean the carbs thinking its bad gas. Should I offer them these suggestions or is that a bad idea?
    You can feel free to give them the list, but before you bring it to them, you may want to investigate some of this yourself and see if they are planning on addressing any of it for free (lest you end up coming way out of pocket on it, far more than you might have planned).

    Cheers,
    =-= The CyberPoet

    Leave a comment:


  • Scott
    replied
    Good info thanks guys.

    What did you mean by 'starvation issues'? Oil? because that was changed last week and I dont wheelie or anything.

    The shop offered me to bring it in again if the problem continues. I think they'll probably try to reclean the carbs thinking its bad gas. Should I offer them these suggestions or is that a bad idea?

    Leave a comment:


  • The CyberPoet
    replied
    Originally posted by Scott
    Well only one light comes on when I start my bike unless I hit the highbeams.
    Replace the bulb for the light that doesn't have both beams. The filament broke.


    Originally posted by Scott
    I bought a brand new battery in the beginning of the summer and it died out a month later. Sometimes I had to physically shake the bike in order for the battery to kick in. I had to fully recharge it at a gas station. Now its fine. But I thought that was probably due my choke cable being frozen for awhile and the bike being flooded a few times when I would try to start her up without it turning over properly, eventually killing the battery.
    Get a BatteryTender brand battery charger and leave the bike plugged in when not in use. The batteries for bikes lose 25 to 40% of the long term ability to hold a charge every time they are drained; drain it three to five times and it won't hold enough of a charge to start the bike. Keeping the battery charged up all the time will extend it's lifespan and ensure fewer problems.

    Originally posted by Scott
    I dont think the guy I bought the bike from kept it indoors or even had a tarp for it, so thats the only reason I figure theres rust by the gas cap door.
    Fixing that sounds like a mess. Should I just say screw it and find a new gas tank?
    Not until you get in there with a flashlight and check out the problem. Even then, simply etching away the rust may be sufficient (light surface rust) or etching and sealing (to create a rust-proof barrier) is far more cost effective. See CyberPoet's "How to Deal with Rust in your Metal Motorcycle or Boat Gas Tank" -- at MotorcycleAnchor.com makers of the best motorcycle security solutions in the USA. for more info.

    Cheers
    =-= The CyberPoet

    Leave a comment:


  • Anonymous
    replied
    It sounds like starvation issues

    Leave a comment:


  • Scott
    replied
    Well only one light comes on when I start my bike unless I hit the highbeams. Wonder why that is. I bought a brand new battery in the beginning of the summer and it died out a month later. Sometimes I had to physically shake the bike in order for the battery to kick in. I had to fully recharge it at a gas station. Now its fine. But I thought that was probably due my choke cable being frozen for awhile and the bike being flooded a few times when I would try to start her up without it turning over properly, eventually killing the battery. The spark plugs fouled out and were replaced. Before that I eventually bought a new choke cable and replaced it with a friend's help.
    I dont think the guy I bought the bike from kept it indoors or even had a tarp for it, so thats the only reason I figure theres rust by the gas cap door.
    Fixing that sounds like a mess. Should I just say screw it and find a new gas tank?
    And how do I tackle fixing the light problem? Sounds electrical.

    Leave a comment:


  • mystahagy
    replied
    Originally posted by The CyberPoet
    Originally posted by mystahagy
    Mine says 91 on that metal tag on the left of the steering head.
    91 RON, not 91 PON.
    RON is used in Europe.
    PON is a calculated formula that is (MON+RON)/2 = PON.
    91 RON is normally the equivilent of 87 PON.

    Unless, of course, the 750 you put in there isn't a standard Kat 750, but something with a higher compression ratio...

    Cheers
    =-= The CyberPoet
    ohhhh SNAP! I just got pwned I just done lernd somethin new, thanks for correcting me. but yeah I do run higher because of the engine, that thing hates 87.

    Leave a comment:


  • The CyberPoet
    replied
    Originally posted by mystahagy
    Mine says 91 on that metal tag on the left of the steering head.
    91 RON, not 91 PON.
    RON is used in Europe.
    PON is a calculated formula that is (MON+RON)/2 = PON.
    91 RON is normally the equivilent of 87 PON.

    Unless, of course, the 750 you put in there isn't a standard Kat 750, but something with a higher compression ratio...

    Cheers
    =-= The CyberPoet

    Leave a comment:


  • mystahagy
    replied
    Originally posted by md86
    This has been discussed to DEATH before , and the general concensus is that 87 is just fine for stock bikes . Your buddy never bothered to look for the correct info , apparently . It happens . It's in the manual , AND on a sticker on the bike somewhere .
    Mine says 91 on that metal tag on the left of the steering head.

    Leave a comment:


  • md86
    replied
    This has been discussed to DEATH before , and the general concensus is that 87 is just fine for stock bikes . Your buddy never bothered to look for the correct info , apparently . It happens . It's in the manual , AND on a sticker on the bike somewhere .

    Leave a comment:

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