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stripped oil drain threads - need HELP

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  • nurider
    started a topic stripped oil drain threads - need HELP

    stripped oil drain threads - need HELP

    Part 1 of the saga had to do with the oil filter:
    http://www.katriders.com/forums/view...4f7a757b44d644

    Part 2 continues:
    drain plug removed
    oil drained
    old filter removed
    torque wrench on hand, for the infernal 16.5 ft-lbs
    BUT!!!! drain plug's threads have metal between them!

    Don't know if the last owner just tightened the hell out of the plug when he changed the oil, or if I managed to strip the threads, but the current situation is stripped threads.

    My options?

    Need help, folks.

    Can't even think about how to get the bike to ... whichever workshop.

  • nurider
    replied
    I was a little surprised; found 2 differences between the Ron Ayers schematic and the bike itself.
    1. The schematic shows bolt 5 on the left side; if bolt 5 is the bolt that's slightly longer than the #3s everywhere else, it does NOT fit in the location shown (I tried it, it bottomed out on the left). It fits on the right side, though. I put it back in the original location.

    2. The #3 with the washer was originally on the right, not on the left per the schematic.

    Tough to get to the bolts with the exhaust pipes in place...... but I managed.

    Anyway, tightened the bolts alternating sides, and things went well. Filled oil and no leaks ... till about 15 minutes later. 1 drop. Damn.

    Decided to go for a test run. By the time I cleaned up & got ready, it was another 20 minutes. No more drops. 70 miles later, parked the bike. No drops since then. Hoping there are no more drops when I get home this evening.

    If that happens, the lower fairings go back on!

    Leave a comment:


  • The CyberPoet
    replied
    Originally posted by nurider
    Checked the schematic at Ron Ayers.

    Have a clean oil pan. BUT, can't find the same oil (Valvoline). Maybe tomorrow!

    Also, I'm not sure about using a torque wrench on the oil pan bolts - they're awkward to get to..
    Did you not item #7 on the schematic at RonAyers? That is a washer, and if it's not there, the pan may leak.

    I didn't have any issues getting at the pan with the smaller torque wrench, but found that a short 1/4" drive socket wrench using just a single finger would net me about the same torque (more than enough to keep it sealed).

    Good Luck!
    =-= The CyberPoet

    Leave a comment:


  • nurider
    replied
    Checked the schematic at Ron Ayers.

    Have a clean oil pan. BUT, can't find the same oil (Valvoline). Maybe tomorrow!

    Also, I'm not sure about using a torque wrench on the oil pan bolts - they're awkward to get to.

    This is taking a LONG time ..............

    Leave a comment:


  • nurider
    replied
    Originally posted by The CyberPoet
    Originally posted by nurider
    Of all the %^$^&#$ luck!

    Oh yeah, am I ok with reusing the gasket (which was new when I installed it at around 7pm tonight (Saturday night), or do I HAVE TO use a new one?
    (A) You might have mixed up some of the bolts -- they aren't all the same length. Check the parts diagram for the pan at RonAyers.com to figure it out.
    (B) The gasket should work again with no problems if you didn't use any gasket silicon or other sealant on it.

    Remember, when tightening the pan back up, move in a criss-cross pattern, tightening them barely and then going back and tightening them more, and stick to that 10 lb-ft of torque recommendation (12 lb-ft if absolutely necessary).

    Cheers
    =-= The CyberPoet
    When I removed the bolts, I laid them on the ground in exactly the same locations to avoid that problem. There are bolts of 4 lengths. The 2 center front ones are the longest. The hidden bolt (which I didn't know about, and was holding the pan in place) is probably the next longest. And there's one of the right side that's long. The others are all the same size.

    Didn't use any sealant for the gasket. Just as well as I wouldn't be able buy anything today anyway.

    Sticking to the 10 ft-lbs will be the toughest part. I'm pretty sure all of them were at least that tight, but probably didn't do a very good job of tightening in a sequence that would ensure uniformity.

    Overtightening an issue (other than potentially stripping them)?

    Also seems one or two of the manifold bolts may need some tightening. When I put my hand infront of them, felt some air movement.

    Well, time to get started. Kind of a pain to drain the new oil in a way that'll allow me to reuse it. The old oil is in the drain pan .......

    Leave a comment:


  • The CyberPoet
    replied
    Originally posted by nurider
    Of all the %^$^&#$ luck!

    Oh yeah, am I ok with reusing the gasket (which was new when I installed it at around 7pm tonight (Saturday night), or do I HAVE TO use a new one?
    (A) You might have mixed up some of the bolts -- they aren't all the same length. Check the parts diagram for the pan at RonAyers.com to figure it out.
    (B) The gasket should work again with no problems if you didn't use any gasket silicon or other sealant on it.

    Remember, when tightening the pan back up, move in a criss-cross pattern, tightening them barely and then going back and tightening them more, and stick to that 10 lb-ft of torque recommendation (12 lb-ft if absolutely necessary).

    Cheers
    =-= The CyberPoet

    Leave a comment:


  • nurider
    replied
    Of all the %^$^&#$ luck!

    Put the oil pan on; tightened the bolts; put on the exhausts, then poured in the 4 liters of oil .... only to find oil dripping down in multpile locations. Tightened most of the bolts again, which helped with the leaks. But, the front left and rear right (diagonal corners) are still leaking - trickling, actually. I think (hope?) it's uneven tightening; don't know what else it could be.

    Planning to drain the oil in the morning, loosen all the bolts, then tighten all the bolts, tightening opposite sets till all are done.

    Any other ideas out there? I'm losing precious riding time, folks, so any help would be very welcome.

    Oh yeah, am I ok with reusing the gasket (which was new when I installed it at around 7pm tonight (Saturday night), or do I HAVE TO use a new one?

    Leave a comment:


  • nurider
    replied
    Originally posted by The CyberPoet
    That's how I ended up with the F106 (on their recommendation), only to find out that I really did need the F111...

    Cheers,
    =-= The CyberPoet


    Well, the pan is off. Turns out they "hid" a screw smack in the center of the pan - kinda like the location of the drain plug. I was directly under the bike, with oil still dripping every now and then from the open plug - that's when and how I saw the last bolt.

    Tomorrow will, hopefully, bring about a fix.

    I went by AutoZone to check out the helicoil kits. Amazingly enough, they have 4 or 5 kits (14mmm - 1.25) hanging on the display.

    Leave a comment:


  • The CyberPoet
    replied
    Originally posted by nurider
    I just got an email back from fumoto:

    "Dear Nurider

    Thank you for your inquiry of July 28.

    Asking about the valve applications for Suzuki Katana motorcycle,
    we do not have any specialized application for motorcycle, but the size of
    plug for all Suzuki engines are 14mm - 1.5, it should be fitted with our
    part#F106(Not F111).

    As you know, the motorcycle engine is designed different from car engine, there might be some difficulties like which the engine part hits the lever of valve when it open and close due to the lack of space, also the low ground clearance and so on.
    The dimension of F106 valve is 7/8" in length and the body of valve
    needs at least a radius of 1" from center of plug hole at the base.

    Because of stripped threads, please fix the threads before installing the
    Valve.

    We appreciate your interest in Engine Oil Drain Valve.

    Best regards,

    YM International Company
    On-line Distributor of Fumoto Oil Drain Valve
    www.fumotovalve.com

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: <Nurider>
    To: <info@fumotovalve.com>
    Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:53 AM
    Subject: Merchant Feedback


    > Nurider says:
    >
    > Hi,
    > I'm looking to use an F111 on the oil drain for a 1997 Suzuki GSX600F
    (Katana) motorcycle. The threads, on the pan itself, are stripped. I'm
    planning to use a helicoil insert to re-do the threads.
    > After that I'd like to install an F111, or maybe install the F111 later.
    > Any problem with doing this?
    > Thanks
    That's how I ended up with the F106 (on their recommendation), only to find out that I really did need the F111...

    Cheers,
    =-= The CyberPoet

    Leave a comment:


  • nurider
    replied
    Originally posted by The CyberPoet
    Originally posted by nurider
    The pan itself, however, does not want to move. I think it may just be the gasket and the sealcreated holding it in place. Anything else possible? I tapped it with a rubber mallet to see if it would get dislodged, but nothing happened. I thought of using a screwdriver to wedge between the block and the pan, but that would be a good way to gouge the metal.

    Ideas, anyone?
    Double check the bolts, you may have missed one that's not on the periphreal of the pan (?). I know that's often the case in the 98+. If you are sure you have all the bolts out, just grab it and yank straight down, or use a small screwdriver and work around the edges. The stock gasket is just fiber-paper and has no rubberized gasket material on it unless someone else screwed with it after it left the factory.

    Cheers
    =-= The CyberPoet
    CP to the rescue!
    I'm off to the garage to check if I missed any bolts. After that, screwdriver mania ....

    Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • nurider
    replied
    Originally posted by The CyberPoet
    Originally posted by nurider
    Incidentally, the fumoto website doesn't even mention using this on bikes. Not that that is necessarily an issue, but I figured it would be easy for them to say something about it.
    That's because they don't have the experience cross-referencing the bolt size on bikes, so they don't have a list. I went through a couple 14mm Fumoto's before I figured out that it was M14-1.25 (and not M14-1.5).
    I just got an email back from fumoto:

    "Dear Nurider

    Thank you for your inquiry of July 28.

    Asking about the valve applications for Suzuki Katana motorcycle,
    we do not have any specialized application for motorcycle, but the size of
    plug for all Suzuki engines are 14mm - 1.5, it should be fitted with our
    part#F106(Not F111).

    As you know, the motorcycle engine is designed different from car engine,
    there might be some difficulties like which the engine part hits the lever
    of valve when it open and close due to the lack of space, also the low
    ground clearance and so on.
    The dimension of F106 valve is 7/8" in length and the body of valve
    needs at least a radius of 1" from center of plug hole at the base.

    Because of stripped threads, please fix the threads before installing the
    Valve.

    We appreciate your interest in Engine Oil Drain Valve.

    Best regards,

    YM International Company
    On-line Distributor of Fumoto Oil Drain Valve
    www.fumotovalve.com

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: <Nurider>
    To: <info@fumotovalve.com>
    Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:53 AM
    Subject: Merchant Feedback


    > Nurider says:
    >
    > Hi,
    > I'm looking to use an F111 on the oil drain for a 1997 Suzuki GSX600F
    (Katana) motorcycle. The threads, on the pan itself, are stripped. I'm
    planning to use a helicoil insert to re-do the threads.
    > After that I'd like to install an F111, or maybe install the F111 later.
    > Any problem with doing this?
    > Thanks

    Just wanted to share it.

    Leave a comment:


  • The CyberPoet
    replied
    Originally posted by nurider
    The pan itself, however, does not want to move. I think it may just be the gasket and the sealcreated holding it in place. Anything else possible? I tapped it with a rubber mallet to see if it would get dislodged, but nothing happened. I thought of using a screwdriver to wedge between the block and the pan, but that would be a good way to gouge the metal.

    Ideas, anyone?
    Double check the bolts, you may have missed one that's not on the periphreal of the pan (?). I know that's often the case in the 98+. If you are sure you have all the bolts out, just grab it and yank straight down, or use a small screwdriver and work around the edges. The stock gasket is just fiber-paper and has no rubberized gasket material on it unless someone else screwed with it after it left the factory.

    Cheers
    =-= The CyberPoet

    Leave a comment:


  • nurider
    replied
    Seems like a good time to grab some dinner, and then continue into the wee hours of the night.

    Leave a comment:


  • nurider
    replied
    Ok, after a fair amount of learning & discovery, and unscrewing (man, those fairings aren't the quickest things to take off), the fairings are off, the pipes/exhaust are off, the bolts holding the pan are all loose, and the oil lines from the cooler are disconnected from the pan.

    The pan itself, however, does not want to move. I think it may just be the gasket and the sealcreated holding it in place. Anything else possible? I tapped it with a rubber mallet to see if it would get dislodged, but nothing happened. I thought of using a screwdriver to wedge between the block and the pan, but that would be a good way to gouge the metal.

    Ideas, anyone?

    Also discovered how much ugliness the fairings cover up - but that's the idea, so no issue there. I just won't be riding much with the fairings off.

    Thanks again.

    Leave a comment:


  • The CyberPoet
    replied
    Originally posted by nurider
    I think you already said the pre98s and the 98+s are the same in this regard, correct?
    I said I think they're the same. Either cross check RonAyers for part numbers (should be identical) or verify through someone else who has access to both bikes (SpecialK?)...


    Originally posted by nurider
    By the way, is it possible to drop only the exhaust on one side to remove the oil pan bolts and slide the pan out?
    Not on the 98+ and I would guess not on the pre-98's either. If you don't disassemble the exhaust (i.e. - don't separate the mid-pipe from the header), it should be no issue to drop the whole thing readily.

    Cheers
    =-= The CyberPoet

    Leave a comment:

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