stripped oil drain threads - need HELP

[nurider]

Part 1 of the saga had to do with the oil filter:

http://www.katriders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9479&sid=b4fde796f7c74264214f7a757b44d644

Part 2 continues:
drain plug removed
oil drained
old filter removed
torque wrench on hand, for the infernal 16.5 ft-lbs
BUT!!!! drain plug's threads have metal between them!

Don't know if the last owner just tightened the hell out of the plug when he changed the oil, or if I managed to strip the threads, but the current situation is stripped threads.

My options?

Need help, folks.

Can't even think about how to get the bike to ... whichever workshop.

[BISQ]

Sounds like it was cross-threaded.

I have only heard of two options.

Option 1 is new oil pan. That will work every time.

Option 2 is drill and tap a new hole in the pan over the current threads, and install a new bolt. You'll need a drill/tap set to do it, and if you don't have one, the cost evens out with the new pan.

Sorry man, but that stupid torque value is brutal. I can't tell you how many times I've heard this story.

[nurider]

Sounds like it was cross-threaded.

I have only heard of two options.

Option 1 is new oil pan. That will work every time.

Option 2 is drill and tap a new hole in the pan over the current threads, and install a new nut/plug. You'll need a drill/tap set to do it, and if you don't have one, the cost evens out with the new pan.

Sorry man, but that stupid torque value is brutal. I can't tell you how many times I've heard this story.

Say it ain't so, Joe. Say it ain't so.

Sh*t!

Cross-threaded? How? I thought I was careful ...... and that too with a wrench set at &*$$#%^$@#$ 16.5!!!

Have you heard of ... damn, now I can't remember the term. A .. heli ... coil or something to fix things like this?

Any idea how much a drain pan would be?

Damn, damn, damn.

[SurfinCR]

i have an oil pan if you need one let me know...how does 15$ plus shipping sound if you want it?

[BISQ]

Have you heard of ... damn, now I can't remember the term. A .. heli ... coil or something to fix things like this?

Any idea how much a drain pan would be?

Damn, damn, damn.

Yep! You're totally right. I forgot about that option, but I haven't heard anyone use it recently. A helicoil will "replace" the threads so you'll get a good grip with the nut. I'm pretty sure you need a new nut, though....not sure.

A new oil pan and gasket is something like $70 from Ronayres.com. Remember, that's OEM new, pretty much. You could do better from guys here (special K) or ebay.

Sorry man.

[nurider]

i have an oil pan if you need one let me know...how does 15$ plus shipping sound if you want it?

I don's have any feel for it, but it sounds better than the waking nightmares I was ready to have. Can I hold off till tomorrow to decide?

What's involved in changing the pans?

Is the pan used?

[BISQ]

i have an oil pan if you need one let me know...how does 15$ plus shipping sound if you want it?

See? There you go! :P

Get a new gasket, though.

[SurfinCR]

take as much time as you need, its been up for sale for a week now and i have had it since november. so there no rush at all. make sure along with the gasket you get the copper crush washer with o ring. if i remember right i was told that should be replaced. correct me if i am wrong though

[nurider]

i have an oil pan if you need one let me know...how does 15$ plus shipping sound if you want it?

See? There you go! :P

Get a new gasket, though.

Even as I was wiping the oil from my hands when this happened, my thoughts were "get to KR, somebody there will be able to get me through this w/o losing riding time this weekend". Sheer terror, the thought of not riding this weekend!

Thanks BISQ.

[nurider]

take as much time as you need, its been up for sale for a week now and i have had it since november. so there no rush at all. make sure along with the gasket you get the copper crush washer with o ring. if i remember right i was told that should be replaced. correct me if i am wrong though

will check with the stealership tomorrow.

As for replacing the pan, how much time are we talking about?

Is this a new pan or are you farming out parts from an old bike?

And if the stripping was my fault (no, Lou, not that kind of stripping), how do I make sure I don't do anything stupid the next time?

[SurfinCR]

this is a pan from an 88 but it is in good shape. just needs to be cleaned up.

i dont know if you do this or not but a good rule of thumb is to start the plug by hand until you can no longer do it and never over tighten thats what i was always taught and its worked for me.

[The CyberPoet]

(A) Torque wrenches, especially the clicker types, do very poorly with the lower end of the setting range and are supposed to be recalibrated every year. This is why I use a visible-beam style torque wrench for most of what's on the Kat.

(B) You have several options (many of them mentioned already):
(1) Retap the pan for a larger size drain (stock bolt is 14mm x 1.25 turns for the 98+ and I think the pre-98's use the same)... or a variation on the same theme -- weld in more aluminum and retap to the original size. Good time for a fumoto valve at this time...
(2) Get a self-cutting replacement oil drain plug. They do make them for people who do such silly things, although I would suggest using your used oil to flush out the pan again after installing one (to clear out any shavings).
(3) Install a heli-coil or a KeenSert. I don't like HeliCoils all that much; I think KeenSerts are a much better solution, since they replace the entire hole, instead of just the ridges of the threads.
(4) Replace the oil pan with an used one. Best solution and one I've used. Drop the exhaust, undo the bolts for the oil pan, throw in the new one with a new gasket (gaskete is $12). Here's where it gets tricky for you: retorque the oil pan bolts to 10 lb-ft (many torque wrenches don't even go that low -- again, beam type has an advantage here). If you hear any cracking noises, you're too tight. The pan bolts only need to have enough pressure on them to hold the pan oil-tight -- there's no real pressure against the pan itself.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[HS2020]

A Brand new Oil pan from the Dealer will cost you $80. I know I busted my pan the day before I went to the rally. I cracked the threads and up the side of the pan. I got a used one that night for $75 just because the guy was coming my way from KY. So If I were you I would get a new oil pan and gasket and be done with it. That is the best and only option I would go. I plan on buying a new oil pan this winter and just keep the new used one I have has a back up. The one I have came off a pre 98 600 and my bike is a pre98 750. It fit and does not leak.

[nurider]

First, my sincere thanks to ALL who replied. KR rules!

(A) Torque wrenches, especially the clicker types, do very poorly with the lower end of the setting range and are supposed to be recalibrated every year. This is why I use a visible-beam style torque wrench for most of what's on the Kat.

(B) You have several options (many of them mentioned already):
(1) Retap the pan for a larger size drain (stock bolt is 14mm x 1.25 turns for the 98+ and I think the pre-98's use the same)... or a variation on the same theme -- weld in more aluminum and retap to the original size. Good time for a fumoto valve at this time...
(2) Get a self-cutting replacement oil drain plug. They do make them for people who do such silly things, although I would suggest using your used oil to flush out the pan again after installing one (to clear out any shavings).
(3) Install a heli-coil or a KeenSert. I don't like HeliCoils all that much; I think KeenSerts are a much better solution, since they replace the entire hole, instead of just the ridges of the threads.
(4) Replace the oil pan with an used one. Best solution and one I've used. Drop the exhaust, undo the bolts for the oil pan, throw in the new one with a new gasket (gaskete is $12). Here's where it gets tricky for you: retorque the oil pan bolts to 10 lb-ft (many torque wrenches don't even go that low -- again, beam type has an advantage here). If you hear any cracking noises, you're too tight. The pan bolts only need to have enough pressure on them to hold the pan oil-tight -- there's no real pressure against the pan itself.

I borrowed the torque wrench .... and, it is adjustable to 16.5 ft-lbs.

1. Retapping sounds like a good option. Due diligence would have me ask if there's sufficient metal around the original hole/tap. Can anyone confirm?
Will need stuff to retap. Home Depot to the rescue?
As for welding on more aluminum - I wouldn't know how. And since I'd like to take care of this myself, not viable.
Are fumoto valves readily available?
I think BISQ mentioned a drill/tap set would run about as much as a new pan.

2. I'll check with the stealership if they carry self tapping plugs.

3. Would like to explore this (either Keensert or heli-coil). Any issue with long term integrity of such a fix?
Lack of other ideas points me to Home Depot.
Possible to install fumoto valve with this kind of fix?

4. Replacing the pan: used or new. Sounds good. Don't know if I want to get into cleaning/etc. a real old one ..... thanks, though.
Uhhh .... since I could, potentially, have ruined the pan drain myself (I prefer to think it was the previous owner), I don't want to ruin the next pan too. Should probably stay away from too many torque requirements. That's why the fumoto sounds pretty good.
For the record, I never stripped the drain plugs on any of my cars ......

Now some general stuff: will I need bike stands or any other lifts, etc.? I'd prefer to stick to a fix which doesn't require me to build a state of the art workshop to get past this problem. I hope you guys know what I mean.

[The CyberPoet]

1. Retapping sounds like a good option. Due diligence would have me ask if there's sufficient metal around the original hole/tap. Can anyone confirm?
Will need stuff to retap. Home Depot to the rescue?

If you get a whole set, go HarborFreight (or HarborFreight.com). If you are just getting a single tap, I'd suggest trying Ace Hardware (Home Depot/Lowes didn't have 14mm taps when I checked my local stores).

As for welding on more aluminum - I wouldn't know how. And since I'd like to take care of this myself, not viable.
Are fumoto valves readily available?

Yes. Past experience tells me fulfillment is usually about 4 days via 1st class mail. See www.fumotovalve.com

Stock size is F111 (M14-1.25). If you tap over to the next Fumoto valve size up, it would be a F108 (16mm 1.5 turns per). Do not get an "N" model; you don't want the extra clearance issues with the nipple.

I think BISQ mentioned a drill/tap set would run about as much as a new pan.

A full metric tap/die set from HarborFreight would run about what you could expect to pay for an used pan with freight ($40).

2. I'll check with the stealership if they carry self tapping plugs.

3. Would like to explore this (either Keensert or heli-coil). Any issue with long term integrity of such a fix?
Lack of other ideas points me to Home Depot.
Possible to install fumoto valve with this kind of fix?

Helicoils have a habit of coming out with the bolt if the bolt is removed again in the future. This would be a non-issue with a fumoto valve, since the valve wouldn't come out again. KeenSerts don't have that issue, but require more involvement to install and are harder to source (your local auto parts shop may have helicoils; unlikely to carry KeenSerts).

4. Replacing the pan: used or new. Sounds good. Don't know if I want to get into cleaning/etc. a real old one ..... thanks, though.
Uhhh .... since I could, potentially, have ruined the pan drain myself (I prefer to think it was the previous owner), I don't want to ruin the next pan too. Should probably stay away from too many torque requirements. That's why the fumoto sounds pretty good.
For the record, I never stripped the drain plugs on any of my cars ......

Unless you drive a VAG (VW or Audi), odds are you've never run into a situation where the pan is aluminum and the bolt is a significantly harder composite-steel blend. Audi owners do it all the time, and our Audis' are the reason I'm familiar with the Fumoto valve.

Meanwhile, if the pan for your bike is $64 new, personally I'd get a new one. The post-98 pans are $117 - $135 new, depending on source, so used ones are a far cheaper route to go... So far I've bought four oil pans for the post-98 Kats off ebay and one was buggered all up (cracked) when it arrived; for the pre-98 price, I'd buy new.

Oh, and before anyone asks the why on four pans:
First one was for a stripped pan on my 1st Kat (dealership's fault; they fixed it with a larger bolt, but the replacement bolt had no magnet & little material around it left, so I swapped pans to go back to the OEM drain plug);
Second one was me stripping out a drain bolt (2nd Kat) on my own;
Third one was a test-bed platform for the first oil temp gauge & sender install.
Fourth one was for the next oil temp sender install (different brand/type), but it was cracked on arrival and I found the sender hole on third one could be retapped for the new sender.

Now some general stuff: will I need bike stands or any other lifts, etc.? I'd prefer to stick to a fix which doesn't require me to build a state of the art workshop to get past this problem. I hope you guys know what I mean.

You need a centerstand or a bike stand. If the bike has a centerstand, that is all you need in terms of support. If it doesn't have a centerstand, seriously consider tracking one down, since it's infinitely useful. I recall someone around here even had a mod to let you install/uninstall one in a matter of 30 to 60 seconds if you don't like riding with one but want one for working on the bike...

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet