Help...Not starting, cranking but not kicking.

[professa_riddler]

I have a little issues with my Kat...it's not starting and it hasn't start since I put it up for winter (in Oct). The last time I attempted to start it (in Nov) it was backfiring/afterfiring (shotgun noise, fire out of exhaust). thought it was plugs, got the iridiums, tank had rust, cleaned and sealed, clean the carbs & petcock, new fuel filter, new air filter. Set A/F to 2.5 turns out. Tested battery. Over 12.5 volts, tested it while cranking, 10.5 volts (which I think is normal). Checked valve clearance, adjusted #3 intake. Pulled plugs, plugs had a little oil on it. Cleaned boots with Contact cleaner and die grease. reseat plugs, boots. (When I pulled the plugs from last year they were all carboned up/darkish brown). Tried to start last night, cranked, almost hit, I think white smoked poofed from exhaust. It almost hit a few times but not kicking.
Home comp has a virus on it, can't access search or internet. Trying to drop this in from work. About to head to the field, any help is greatly appreciated. Please any suggestions, I'm going nuts. I know this has been mentioned before but anything would be great. Thanks.

98 600 over 7k miles. Wileco slip on.

[DumbLuck]

KISS principal. keep it simple,,,,, got spark? got fuel? is the fuel making it down into the carbs? air? vacuum lines on properly, airbox and filter on properly?

how well did you clean the carbs? the tiny passages and jets clog easy, and can be difficult to clean.

[katanawarrior]

Mist some Carb Clean into the air box. Have the choke on when you do it. After I destroyed & rebuilt the kat last year, (it sat for ~ a month) I couldn't get it started and I did everything you said. As a last resort, I misted some carb cleaner in the air box, it hit, fired up, I kept it running for about 10 mins or so, shut it off, and started fine until I got rid of it. I know you guys hate using starter fluid, or carb cleaner, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

(BTW ... I did drain & replace with fresh gas too )

[professa_riddler]

KISS principal. keep it simple,,,,, got spark? got fuel? is the fuel making it down into the carbs? air? vacuum lines on properly, airbox and filter on properly?

how well did you clean the carbs? the tiny passages and jets clog easy, and can be difficult to clean.

I searched and found some info here on testing for spark, so I'll check that when I get home. Fresh fuel. I didn't hook the tank up, I dropped fresh fuel into the bowls through the fuel filter.
I double checked the airbox and filter yesterday, seemed pretty secured. I can smell fuel and when I removed the carbs again I noticed fuel streaks in the intake boots.
The carbs was pretty clean when I took them off to clean. I cleaned them twice and then dipped them in the Chem dip. I followed Carbs 101 to the tee.

Mist some Carb Clean into the air box. Have the choke on when you do it. After I destroyed & rebuilt the kat last year, (it sat for ~ a month) I couldn't get it started and I did everything you said. As a last resort, I misted some carb cleaner in the air box, it hit, fired up, I kept it running for about 10 mins or so, shut it off, and started fine until I got rid of it. I know you guys hate using starter fluid, or carb cleaner, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

(BTW ... I did drain & replace with fresh gas too )

As a last resort I might have to try this. Here is some additional info. I can smell gas as I crank it and when I pulled the new plugs again to do the valve clearance check, it smelled like gas and it had spots of awet black substance on it. I assumed it was oil but a friend told me it might be gas running a little rich. Should I turn it in a little (a/f)? It's at 2.5 right now.

Thanks for the help guys.

[The CyberPoet]

(A) Is the fuel new? Is it new at the carbs (or is the fuel from winter still in the carbs?).
Flip the carbs forward to drain them, then use prime to refill them with new fuel.

(B) 2.5 turns should be fine with healthy gasoline and a little bit of choke in the current weather. Make sure you're counting turns from when the screw starts to get some resistance at the o-ring and not from down-as-hard-as-can-go. Canadians get 2-5/8ths turns, and I actually think this is probably the best setting for the OEM pilots. Which does raise one other question -- are you sure you have the OEM jetting in there?

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[nismoz]

sounds like katwarrior's got da idea,if u mist startin fluid in an you get nothin even a backfire then you ain't got no spark and thats probly due to the obvious(a blown FUSE) hopefully It helped

[professa_riddler]

Thanks for the help everyone.

Here is a quick update.

Update: I checked the spark for good measure; spark was good. However, while I tested for the spark, with one of the the plug and boot out of the cylinder the engine started up. I did that twice and it started like that, with only three plugs connected and that was before I messed with the mixture screws.

I didn't mess with the bike too much last night but I did manage to drop the mix down from 2.5 turns to 2 turns out.

I had to crank the engine a good bit and for a few times but it kicked and ran for about 15 secs or so. Every time I touch the throttle it died. It did a few times when I realized that I shouldn't touch the throttle. I kept my finger on the start button while cranking and that's how I got it too run a few times. My last attempt it ran for about 50 secs at very low idle (around 800 rpms; standard is 1250) and then it cut out.

One thing I did forget is too mess with the idle adjuster. So tonight I'll drop the mix to 1 3/4 turns out and turn the adjuster up and see what happens.

(A) Is the fuel new? Is it new at the carbs (or is the fuel from winter still in the carbs?).
Flip the carbs forward to drain them, then use prime to refill them with new fuel.

(B) 2.5 turns should be fine with healthy gasoline and a little bit of choke in the current weather. Make sure you're counting turns from when the screw starts to get some resistance at the o-ring and not from down-as-hard-as-can-go. Canadians get 2-5/8ths turns, and I actually think this is probably the best setting for the OEM pilots. Which does raise one other question -- are you sure you have the OEM jetting in there?

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

The fuel is fresh (unless it's just crappy). I drained all the fuel when I opened the bowls to clean them and the carbs, jets, etc. The only thing I didn't do was add Techron to the fuel which I might do tonight. I poured fuel straight into the fuel hose via a funnel and siphon hose.

B) It's possible that I didn't count out correctly and I probably had on 3.5 instead of 2.5 or vice versa (too lean). The jetting seems correct, based on visual inspection of stock pics of jets/needles to mine.

[The CyberPoet]

B) It's possible that I didn't count out correctly and I probably had on 3.5 instead of 2.5 or vice versa (too lean). The jetting seems correct, based on visual inspection of stock pics of jets/needles to mine.

I find an easier way to make sure you count right (at least in my head) is to count degrees rather than turns -- e.g. 2-1/2 turns = 720 degrees plus 180 degrees.
I have a nasty habit of tending to count half turns as full turns (because I have to move my hand back to the starting position to start turning more). Same thing on the oil filters...

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[nismoz]

did you have this bike on the center stand or side stand? it's possible you didnt fill the bowls as i've done this on a cbr600 on the kickstand

[professa_riddler]

I find an easier way to make sure you count right (at least in my head) is to count degrees rather than turns -- e.g. 2-1/2 turns = 720 degrees plus 180 degrees.
I have a nasty habit of tending to count half turns as full turns (because I have to move my hand back to the starting position to start turning more). Same thing on the oil filters...

Likewise. I noticed when I adjusted them on Monday that I got confused for a bit cause it kept moving before and after I adjusted them. I'm like come on, can't I win. I have to try this trick. My big hands and fingers trying to change those tiny screws is a nightmare.

Is their a trick or technique to rotating the screws while it's attached? I remove from intake, adjust, and then attach, but it's too time consuming.

did you have this bike on the center stand or side stand? it's possible you didnt fill the bowls as i've done this on a cbr600 on the kickstand

I had it on the center stand. I filled it up until it started to kick back at the fuel filter. I think it should be full.

Thanks for your help everyone.

[The CyberPoet]

Is their a trick or technique to rotating the screws while it's attached? I remove from intake, adjust, and then attach, but it's too time consuming.

90 degree carb screwdriver, but it's a bit of a PIA because it's hard to tell if you've got the tip in the slot.

http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0119/

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[DumbLuck]

umm, gee wiz. if it doesnt want to idle or idle low, leaning it out from the factory 2.5 turns (given there's no jet kit) seem futile. clean the entire pilot circuit again, and yet again. do NOT run metal objects thru the pilot jet, just use lots of carb cleaner and air. are you replacing the air box each time as you should? a vacuum leak or no air box will suck way too much air dropping the vacuum when opening the throttle, killing teh skoot

[The CyberPoet]

do NOT run metal objects thru the pilot jet, just use lots of carb cleaner and air.

My specific advice is to pluck a bristle (nylon, polypropylene) from a broom or paint brush and use that -- soft enough that it won't scratch the metal, hard enough to knock away debris, and it'll bend as needed. BUT be careful the bristle doesn't get melted by carb cleaner (use the bristle first!).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[professa_riddler]

90 degree carb screwdriver, but it's a bit of a PIA because it's hard to tell if you've got the tip in the slot.

http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0119/

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

Nope, the pockets won't let me do that.

I don't guys, I will take it completely off the bike, drain it and check the floats, clean and then try it again. Maybe I didn't adjust the floats correctly. Still that shouldn't cause it not to start. I'm getting a headache.

[gazoo]

what i found out after doing the carb clean 101 was that it works if the bike has been sitting say over the winter . mine sat for 6 , 7 years ! i had to take each carb apart from each other and let it sit in the berrymans chemical dip for a day . each carb sat for a whole day in varying positions to get the cleaner into all the passages . the pilots , main , and emulsifiers all stayed in there for 4 days . after i did that i sprayed carb clean through every passage followed by air . on the floats the passage there MUST be clean and clear or it won't start . i made sure the spray carb cleaner went all the way through cleanly . put everything back together and presto . did'nt even have to choke it , she started on the first try . of course i still had to por-15 the tank before all this to ensure the rust did'nt kill my carbs again but she's running and i'm happy .