Burning Oil, Not going into neutral, trouble starting when cold... (Ride #3)

[femmekat]

Back with more questions....

Problem #1
New bike to me (and first bike), 1991 Katana 600. Today was ride #3 (Ride #1 prompted an oil change and new oil filter, and Ride #2 cleaning and lubing the chain). Today for the first time the bike did not want to click into neutral when I started riding... I pulled into the gas station, and it took 10 minutes of fussing and yanking up and down on the shifter, rolling it forward and backward, etc. to get it to finally go into neutral.. The gas station attendant was extra helpful and snuck up behind me, and deciding(wrongly) that I must have been having trouble putting the kickstand down, stuck his foot out and lowered it thus killing the engine.. And then the bike wouldn't start for several minutes...(I wanted to strangle him) I've only ridden a couple times now, and am already in the mindset of "Don't touch my bike!" lol. I must disclose that I did wash the bike before riding, but didn't really blast it with much water, and it doesn't seem like that should have anything to do with the bike going into neutral.... What could be causing this, and how to diagnose? It was shifting perfectly yesterday....

Problem #2
After these several rides, there is now a clear pattern of the bike not wanting to start while cold... I can push the ignition button several times, and nothing... Complete silence.Then a weak start that will die, then it will eventually fire up with the choke on for several minutes, then run strong when warmed up for several minutes and I can turn the choke off.... ??? Once I've been riding for a little while, it usually starts better, but sometimes it doesn't....

Problem #3
After 30 minutes or so of easy neighborhood riding, it is definitely burning oil... No longer seems to be running really hot after the oil change, but definitely some smoke and oil burning smell... I do not see an obvious leak... But don't know exactly where I should be looking. How serious is this? Worth diagnosing? Or should I just live with it, considering this is my first bike, and is 18 years old... It seems to run strong/pretty good otherwise (except other above mentioned issues ;p)

At this rate... by ride #50 I will have pieced together an entirely new bike... Well, hopefully not, but I really just want to ride the darn thing!

Thaks in advance,
Lauren

[kevin2502000]

How many miles on this beast?

[acidice333]

#2 kinda sounds normal if I'm not mistaken?

[femmekat]

It has almost 28,000 miles on it...

Lauren

[kevin2502000]

Neutral is a tricky find. After he shut it off did you find it no problem? If so use that technique. You HAVE to use choke on a cold engine but don't leave it on long. Are you sure you aren't burning off some oil that was spilled during the oil change? If it's the engine burning it you will see a bluish smoke.

[beherenow71]

Was the oil burning smell right after the oil change? Could be that you just spilled some oil somewhere (on the exhaust for instance) and it's just burning off.

[femmekat]

I don't think I spilled any oil, almost positive. Was pretty careful, used a funnel, and none spilled with oil filter install. I guess I can ride it for a couple more days and see if it burns off? I want to say that the smoke is more whitish? Not really blue, I don't think...

Regarding neutral... It continued to be a problem for the rest of the ride.... Very, very, fussy, taking a dozen or more tries... really just being a big pain in the a**.

Yesterday it was perfect... Found neutral every time. No change in operating techniques, it just wouldn't go in without a huge fight all of a sudden, starting today, and never got any better...

Someone did comment today that it looked like the clutch cable was really far out...i.e. not screwed in enough? But I don't neccessarily trust this particular person's opinion...

[kevin2502000]

White smoke means contaminated fuel. AND you will need new plugs.

[femmekat]

Eck.... I did fill up for the first time today... Contaminated with what? Why new plugs?

[scottynoface]

Back with more questions....

Problem #1
New bike to me (and first bike), 1991 Katana 600. Today was ride #3 (Ride #1 prompted an oil change and new oil filter, and Ride #2 cleaning and lubing the chain). Today for the first time the bike did not want to click into neutral when I started riding... I pulled into the gas station, and it took 10 minutes of fussing and yanking up and down on the shifter, rolling it forward and backward, etc. to get it to finally go into neutral.. The gas station attendant was extra helpful and snuck up behind me, and deciding(wrongly) that I must have been having trouble putting the kickstand down, stuck his foot out and lowered it thus killing the engine.. And then the bike wouldn't start for several minutes...(I wanted to strangle him) I've only ridden a couple times now, and am already in the mindset of "Don't touch my bike!" lol. I must disclose that I did wash the bike before riding, but didn't really blast it with much water, and it doesn't seem like that should have anything to do with the bike going into neutral.... What could be causing this, and how to diagnose? It was shifting perfectly yesterday....

Problem #2
After these several rides, there is now a clear pattern of the bike not wanting to start while cold... I can push the ignition button several times, and nothing... Complete silence.Then a weak start that will die, then it will eventually fire up with the choke on for several minutes, then run strong when warmed up for several minutes and I can turn the choke off.... ??? Once I've been riding for a little while, it usually starts better, but sometimes it doesn't....

Problem #3
After 30 minutes or so of easy neighborhood riding, it is definitely burning oil... No longer seems to be running really hot after the oil change, but definitely some smoke and oil burning smell... I do not see an obvious leak... But don't know exactly where I should be looking. How serious is this? Worth diagnosing? Or should I just live with it, considering this is my first bike, and is 18 years old... It seems to run strong/pretty good otherwise (except other above mentioned issues ;p)

At this rate... by ride #50 I will have pieced together an entirely new bike... Well, hopefully not, but I really just want to ride the darn thing!

Thaks in advance,
Lauren

Ok, it's late, and I can't really form thoughts too well so bare with me

#1- So the guy flips the kickstand down for you. You said you finally found neutral, the bike was still running at this point right? Kickstand down kills the engine if you're in gear. This is normal. If you were in neutral and the stand killed it, that's a problem.

A.)If it was in neutral and died when the stand went down, it's an electrical issue and I don't think the stand is the culprit. Look for crappy connections in the sidestand relay and follow that up.

B.) If it was in gear and died, that's normal, not wanting to start afterwards is not. You said the bike wouldn't start for several minutes, did it try to turn over and just not catch or was it hit the starter and nothing? Nothing happening indicates sidestand switch malfunction, lights on and turning with no start indicates fueling/ignition problem.

2.) This sounds pretty normal. My Kat always caught on the first attempt, but I know many others do not. Might be a weak battery, might be a bad connection, but if the bike starts and runs well then hey

3.) How do you know that it is burning oil? I ask this because an oil/air cooled motor will always smell a bit like oil and even have the oil vapor feel coming off of it. Do you see any actual leaks? Oil caked onto engine parts etc...If your oil level is still constant and you have no visible leaks, then odds are it's just the smell and feel that's making you worry.

Hope it's some help

[femmekat]

Hey Scottynoface,

Thanks so much for your reply... It is entirely possible that I am turning into a motorcycle hypochondriac, as I have trouble telling what is "normal" so then I worry...

In response to your reply about question #1, I mentioned the guy flipping my kickstand down just to ***** about it, as I knew it would kill the engine, as it was in gear (did not get it into neutral before he did that). I restarted the bike, and then in took another 10 minutes of fussing to finally get it into neutral...

Problem #1
My main concern is why was it so hard to get into neutral today, when it was a peice of cake the first 2 rides? If it had been consistently fussy, I wouldn't worry, but it was a drastic change today... This is my primary concern at this point...

Problem #2
It sounds like the way it is starting is pretty standard... I just didn't know what normal was for this bike...

Problem #3
Regarding the burning oil smell, you may be entirely right that it is normal for the bike... I am going to ride it and see...


In general...

When I figure out how to get the tank off I will definitely check the spark plugs in the near future, especially since the type of riding I have been doing would probably not get them up to temp to burn off any fouling... (tried to download the manual from repair manual club online... but the only one on there is for the 750 (600 and 750's of this year are pretty much the same, right?) and it doesn't say which year.. I also can't make heads or tails of it..

THanks!

[beherenow71]

I would guess that the 750 and 600 manuals are the same, but I could be wrong.

Tank is easy to get off. Remove the 2 bolts in the back and slide it back a bit to remove it from the catch in front. Watch out not to lose the rubber piece in front, mine always fell off. You may or may not have to take the fairings off to get the tank off, I never had to.

As for neutral, my Kat was always a pain to get into neutral as well so I would guess there is nothing wrong with your bike. I can say that when I installed the Factory Pro shift kit that it actually got easier to get into neutral, this could be something for you to look into, although you will have to change your oil again to do it, not the filter though.

As for the starting, I would probably try putting some Seafoam in the tank. Its a pretty inexpensive fix and it has worked wonders for me and my bikes. Not saying it will fix anything for sure, but I don't think it would hurt.

[scottynoface]

Regarding neutral getting harder to find: Your clutch cable may not be adjusted properly, causing it to not completely disengage, and subsequently feeling the clutch drag and not being able to find neutral. That said, I could almost never find neutral on my Katana, only with the engine off no matter how hard I tried or how I adjusted my clutch cable.

[femmekat]

Ok...so I'm thinking that the clutch cable is not adjusted properly. When I was in a parking lot yesterday this guy said that it looked like it wasn't screwed in enough(next to the handlebar), the metal sheath with threads that goes around the cable right where it goes into the handlebar... So he starts twisting on it, to try to get it to thread in more, but cant really budge it, then tells me to use some pliers at home (which I did not do)Well, I look at the bike today, and that metal sheath is now cracked in half after he twisted on it, so there is now a sharp edge that the clutch cable runs over. I adjust the round part that goes around the metal sheath protecting the cable, so that it catches a thread on either side, effectively holding the sheath together so its not at a weird angle, with a sharp edge for the cable to slide over... Pictures coming tonight. How easily does the cable get frayed? Do you think the cable itself needs to be replaced? And if so, whatis the cost of a new cable, would most repair shops stock it or would I need to order, and how much labor time involved in replacing the cable and adjusting it? If I can just replace the cracked metal sheath with the threads on it where it screws into the handlebar, where would I find that? Katana specific, or something a standard repair shop would stock? Is it safe to ride once or twice before addressing this? Gonna be 75 and sunny tomorrow, and I'm dying to ride, but don't want to thrash the whole cable on a sharp edge... Everything is closed for the holiday and no shops are gonna be open until Tuesday...

[scottynoface]

It's possible that the cable is at the end of its life. I think a cable is like $15 + a few bucks for shipping from BikeBandit. Very cheap, and easy to replace. Here's Jimmy's write up with pics on how to adjust your cable correctly: http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64698

That's a good place to get started. If that doesn't work, then it may be time for a new cable. I'm laying odds that yours is just a bit too tight and isn't allowing the clutch to completely disengage. Do you have a camera? If so take a picture of where the cable connects to the handlebar where the worm gear is and post it up.