Update , carbs cleaned , now what !

[gazoo]

well after a day of screwing with this thing ( 95 kat 750 ) i got it to run for about 10 seconds using a shot of gumout in each carb ( airbox off , # 4 carb vacuum line plugged ) . i even revved it before it died . i was happy . what i don't understand is why it won't stay running . the damm fuel hoses are not oem so they look like a crazy straw so it's probably having a hard time getting fuel . but when i open the drain screws on the bowls fuel comes out . WTF! i removed the plugs and there is just a hint of oil on them from when i let a litttle in the chambers so as to lubricate the cylinder walls . i cleaned them up . i checked spark and i have that although it's kinda weak so i threw that batt on the charger till i got 12.9 volts . everytime it just wants to start but it won't . i even took the carb float bowls off to check and make sure everything looks good and it does . floats move perfectly and height is ok . could a little oil screw this up this bad ? when i go up there wednesday i'll bring the correct hoses , ether and some compressed air to re clean the carbs and blow some air down the sparg plug holes . all cables are new ( thanks cyber ! ) and work perfectly . my guess is the fuel hoses and that little bit of oil down there which should be gone with all the attempted starts . but i would like your advice and opinions . p.s. the hoses from home depot suck . i 'm going with the oem ones .

[Wild-Bill]

OK, first of all, the ether... BAD IDEA! You don't need it and it'll wash all the oil off the cylinder walls. Save it for the next time you need to start a big diesel or mess with your roommate's head.

As for starting the bike: Start by making sure you cleaned out all the passages - even the choke. When you cleaned the carbs did you blow cleaner and air through there with the choke knob pulled out? Did you look through the pilot jets to make sure they were all the way clear?

Next try replacing the fuel lines with new 7mm hoses. You'll have to cut them short enough (especially the one going to #1&2) that they won't kink up. That doesn't leave a lot of room under the tank to hook them up but if you put a 2x4 flat under the back end of the tank and cut the line to fit that way there's just enough room to get your hand in there (even my big ol' meat grabbers) without leaving too much slack in the line.

Finally, don't even bother trying to start the bike without the air cleaner. Install the breather box to the carbs before installing the carbs. They'll go right in as an assembly. That way you can make sure you've got those boots all the way onto all 4 carbs. You need that or the bike won't idle right no matter what else you do. Take a moment to make sure the airbox drain line is capped off, too. Prime the carbs with nice, fresh gas and it should light right off.

[HexKrak]

OK, first of all, the ether... BAD IDEA! You don't need it and it'll wash all the oil off the cylinder walls. Save it for the next time you need to start a big diesel or mess with your roommate's head.

As for starting the bike: Start by making sure you cleaned out all the passages - even the choke. When you cleaned the carbs did you blow cleaner and air through there with the choke knob pulled out? Did you look through the pilot jets to make sure they were all the way clear?

Next try replacing the fuel lines with new 7mm hoses. You'll have to cut them short enough (especially the one going to #1&2) that they won't kink up. That doesn't leave a lot of room under the tank to hook them up but if you put a 2x4 flat under the back end of the tank and cut the line to fit that way there's just enough room to get your hand in there (even my big ol' meat grabbers) without leaving too much slack in the line.

Finally, don't even bother trying to start the bike without the air cleaner. Install the breather box to the carbs before installing the carbs. They'll go right in as an assembly. That way you can make sure you've got those boots all the way onto all 4 carbs. You need that or the bike won't idle right no matter what else you do. Take a moment to make sure the airbox drain line is capped off, too. Prime the carbs with nice, fresh gas and it should light right off.

[gazoo]

hey bill , i see your're in jersey . me too up in washington . ok heres the deal . the jets are clean and the pilot jets too . i saw daylite through them . just a bit but i did check . i'm gonna pull them off again to double check but i know there clean as could be . then i'll go through this step by step again on wednesday . i'm missing something but i don't know what . this thing should fire right up . i went through the carbs cleaning just as instructed by the post by steve in his carb cleaning thread . slides work , linkage ok ,clean gas , spark , no leaks or flooding . i removed the carbs and plugs and no leaks or flooding . i'll try again wednesday . my bet is on the fuel flow . it acts like it just wants to start but it won't till i squirted some carb cleaner in the carbs then it caught which tells me it isn't getting fuel . when i choke it , it does'nt even want to catch like it does when i don't give any choke . hmmm? gonna try it by the numbers . everything hooked up properly on wednesday and see .

[Wild-Bill]

I'm down by Bordentown. There's several of us in Jersey. Check out the "nj riders?" thread.

Be sure you put the airbox on before you try to start it. That makes a big difference. The carbs on a Kat are really sensitive to vacuum. So much so that even a small leak can keep the bike from idling properly. As for the bike firing with carb cleaner, you were adding extra fuel so the fact that the bike was too lean from not having the airbox installed didn't matter. For just a moment it had enough fuel (the cleaner) but not enough to actually run the engine for long.

Oh, just thought of this, when you cleaned out the carbs where did you set the idle air screws? (You did pull them out and clean the passages, right?) Factory setting is too lean. Suggestion around the forum is 2.5 turns out and that seems to work pretty well for me.

[gazoo]

cool i know where your at . gonna look up that thread tomorrow since i'm stuck in the house all day . yep i turned the air /fuel screws 2.25 turns out . i'm gonna go over the carbs again from a-z and clean em again . i know from what i read that sometimes you have to go through these things a few times to fully clean them . on thing i did notice was the tank was pretty clean along with the fuel filter . but if the float bowls are full of fuel why isn't the thing getting gas ?? i know it's got spark cause i checked . the bowls are full so why is'nt fuel getting to where it's supposed to go ?? man i'm gonna be armed when i get to it again . . CARBS , LOOK OUT !! I'M COMIN !!

[kevin2502000]

Did you forget to hook up the choke cable?

[scottynoface]

yep i turned the air /fuel screws 2.25 turns out .

That's kinda lean, try 2.5 and go from there.

[Wild-Bill]

...but if the float bowls are full of fuel why isn't the thing getting gas ?? ...

Again, you need the airbox/filter. (Not to harp on that or anything... I learned that one the hard way back in 1989. There was much saying of bad words there, too.) Those carbs need the intake resistance otherwise they're running way lean. If it won't start with the airbox and a full charge on the battery (or jumper cables to a non-running vehicle) there's something still wrong in the carbs. Blow out those passages again and make sure you've got all the o-rings. Look for any little-bitty passages you might have missed. There's something.

[ITS_NOT_A_KNIFE]

dont forget the airbox...i mean--->>>

[gazoo]

i'm on my way to pull the carbs back off and disassemble them again . i've got a can of compressed air and a tall can of gumout along with some broom hairs that are flexible and long enough to poke through all the passages . once they're here we'll go through them together . new plugs too !

[gazoo]

ok just got done tearing down the carbs . the pilot jets were clean , only one i could'nt see daylite through so they're soaking in carb cleaner now . wonder if i should boil them . gonna go work all the carb passages through again with carb cleaner . only thing i hate is the smell .! let me know anything you think i might miss .

[gazoo]

arrgh!!

well i just blew a whole bottle of gumout and half a can of air through every hole in the carb body . man , i hate the smell of this stuff . carbs are sitting waiting to get reassembled . i'm gonna let the emulsion tubes , pilot jets , and main jets sit in the carb cleaner overnite then blow them out tomorrow and reassemble them . also in the haynes book the main jets are all 105 with the exception of the #3 which is 110 . are the jets marked anywhere ? please let me know , thanks .

[DumbLuck]

poking stuff thru passages and jet holes is a major NO NO. those passages are pretty exactly sized for a reason, and easy to damage. they are also very easy to plug up with foreighn crud. Lots and logs of carb cleaner, and lots and lots of air. Just one little can of compressed air is not near enough.

One should also only do ONE carb at a time, certainly not all 4 at once. Too easy to mix up, or loose parts and pieces.

[iepeus]

An easy way to keep everything separate is using a muffin tin. I think it's in the carbs101.pdf I followed the step-by-step guide and man does my bike run great now.