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After Carbs 101 where is the A.P class?

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  • After Carbs 101 where is the A.P class?

    Greetings all

    Long time wrencher.. first time poster here.. 1st Kat owner as of last month.. and now I have 2...
    Here's the gag.. #1 runs great.. it's for my older son..

    #2 is a project bike for my buddy at work who's going thru some STUFF..
    This is his distraction.. which I'm funding..
    The bike in question 1993 Kat 600 29 K on the clock, which was ABUSED,abandoned & left for dead ( Craig's list LA ). We have brought the bike back to ALMOST 100% mechanicaly.. but oh those carbs!

    Current problem ( after a FULL cleaning as prescribed in Carb 101, 4 hrs, ).

    Conditions: no air filter, new plugs, fresh gas, Sunny So Cal day oh yes.. this has a Dynojet kit 134 main 5 position needle all the way down. and currently stock pipes but the bike did come with a Yoshimura headers & pipe.. and K&N's ( which are currently off and I do have the stock air box ) I also have a 2nd full carb set for parts & R&D which would not run the bike..( opening it up I know why now )
    I plan on building that one up to stock specs as a spare.

    The bike ( after today ) will start and idle ~ 1100 until I blip the throttle.. then it will not come back down unless I bog the engine ( 1st gear and drag the clutch a bit.. then release ) or I block off the air idle jet & #2.. I took it on a test drive it makes good power up to 2 grand.. then pop pop..MORE POWER and it runs like a scalded dog... ( In a good way )..
    when I came home from the 5 minute test.. I had bug in teeth syndrom.

    The interior of the carbs was FILTHY and I should have bought stock in 3M & Gumout BEFORE I started this project... about 6 cans and some time in the ultrasonic for all the WEE brass parts.

    So here are my questions:

    #1 Stock jets for MAINS are 112.5 ( In so cal according to Lord Clymer )

    What about the 2 others???


    #2 The T vent lines above fuel feeds on the carbs.. should I plug them off for testing ?

    #3 Do the boots going between the carbs & the heads need a reseal/ replacement as a matter of course to prevent vac leaks?

    #4 The o rings on the foward bit of the float support ( idle fuel feed ) do not seat as well as the back o rings for the seat/needle assy. When the float bowl gets screwed in.. does that assist in compressing that assy?

    #5 Did I burn my amount of rookie questions for this 1st post?


    Thanks
    Mike

  • #2
    Originally posted by vigman View Post
    #5 Did I burn my amount of rookie questions for this 1st post?


    Thanks
    Mike
    Maybe ......
    I;'ll come back later for some more of this if someone else doesn't first (it's late , I have to go ), but the hanging idle/bog thing sounds JUST like a problem someone I know encountered a few years ago . Carbs had been cleaned a FEW times . Same problem . Took to shop .Cleaned AGAIN . Problem went away . Jets may be clear , but passages in the carb body may NOT . You DID say they were pretty bad before you cleaned them ....
    I am a fluffy lil cuddly lovable bunny , dammit !



    Katrider's rally 2011 - md86

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    • #3
      Yes they were!

      BUT... I have cleaned out EVERYTHING... I was going to dunk the bodies in the ultrasonic.. but the solution I currently have is way to strong.

      I have a some 750 bodies 36mm.. and it ate into the metal..very clean, BUT not pretty..

      So I removed, cleaned, sprayed, ran guitar wire, blew out ( 120 psi & needle gun ) out every passage.. I normally do cars.. and some bikes ( coming back round again though ) since my first Allstate 250 ( did I just date myself?).

      I haven't checked sync on the carbs on the bike now... but it runs pretty good all things considered.

      So I will try my 2nd set of carbs tomorow with the full monty ( setting up stock ) and see what that brings.

      Thanks for the reply!

      Mike ( the new skid mark )

      Comment


      • #4
        #1 Stock jets for MAINS are 112.5 ( In so cal according to Lord Clymer )

        What about the 2 others???
        http://katriders.com/wiki/index.php5...=Carb_settings

        #2 The T vent lines above fuel feeds on the carbs.. should I plug them off for testing ?
        "T" vent lines? You should plug the vac line that operatres the petcock.

        #3 Do the boots going between the carbs & the heads need a reseal/ replacement as a matter of course to prevent vac leaks?
        If they are old, they might be worn out. You can find this out by pulling them to inspect.
        http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.p...924&highlight=

        #4 The o rings on the foward bit of the float support ( idle fuel feed ) do not seat as well as the back o rings for the seat/needle assy. When the float bowl gets screwed in.. does that assist in compressing that assy?
        Screwing the bowls in will push the floats together.
        -Steve


        sigpic
        Welcome to KatRiders.com! Click here to register
        Don't forget to check the Wiki! http://katriders.com/wiki

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        • #5
          Carb update

          2nd set of carbs got the full cleaning.. like #1 but with same results..
          Bike make good power but sticks coming back down to idle.. ~ 1400rpm..

          Bog the engine or shut off & restart and idle is back to a grand.

          Here's my new theory.

          1 The bike like running richer than leaner... 120 mains leave the plugs with white powder. ( at least here at my altitude + 2000ft ) so we went back to the 134's with the Yoshimura pipe & K&N pods.

          2 I believe the springs that push the slides back down are a bit whimpy.. and these slides are sticking a bit on the way back down, this is the high intermittant idle issue.

          3 I have put in new O rings for the carb boots and resealed everything.

          4 ) The carbs are 100 % clean ( both sets )

          5 ) The needles are smooth & the emulsion tubes ( tops ) are not egg shaped.


          So I'm going to try making a spacer to slightly increase tension for the slide spring and see what that brings.

          The good news is my buddy got his first ride today ~ 28 miles from my house to work.. and will be making the return trip tomorow to finish up cosmetics.

          I also took this oppertunity to put seafoam in the tank.. for addiitional cleaning.

          We also replaced the fuel lines & added new ( better ) inline filters.

          Thanks

          Mike

          Comment


          • #6
            Ah , Cali . You make sure all the emissions BS is taken care of properly ?
            I am a fluffy lil cuddly lovable bunny , dammit !



            Katrider's rally 2011 - md86

            Comment


            • #7
              Emissions... what's that?

              I have never had to smog a bike before..... and I can say this will not pass all the stuff was missing when we got the bike.

              UPDATE....
              So the bike made a 50 mile round trip.. HURRAY!

              But the bike is not doing to well milage wise ~ 25 mpg. and the plugs are showing lean still.

              So todays wrenching:
              Replaced fluid res for rear brakes ( all hardware was REALLY RUSTY ).
              Replaced misc hardware & brackets.

              In addition I have to say the K&N pods do NOT work well in my setup....

              Today we lubed the slides with silicone..
              Hand picked my 4 best out of the 2 carbs
              Put the stock air box in..
              Pulled the needles up 2 stops
              Did a carb sync.....

              The bike ran fine up to 7K then BOGGED BAD....

              So just to be 100% sure ( since you cant see the air filter condition when you pull it out )

              I ran the bike with the air box san's filter...

              WOW This is now making SMOOTH,and slightly scary power all the way up & down the tach.

              So what do I do next, cut the air filter element open.. and it was YUCK inside...

              Well what do you want for 20 bucks off Craigs list?? I got a clean plastic box and a yuck air filter....

              The " CORRECT " air filter element is now on order.. So i'm now a believer in Stock air box ROCKS!

              Comment


              • #8
                Nicely done!
                Must read for carb tuners......http://www.factorypro.com/tech/tech_...m_engines.html

                Comment


                • #9
                  Lesson learned eh? Glad you got it worked out.
                  90% of motorcycle forum members do not have a service manual for their bike.

                  Originally posted by Badfaerie
                  I love how the most ignorant people I have met are the ones that fling the word "ignorant" around like it's an insult, or poo. Maybe they think it means poo
                  Originally posted by soulless kaos
                  but personaly I dont see a point in a 1000 you can get the same power from a properly tuned 600 with less weight and better handeling.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by vigman View Post
                    I have never had to smog a bike before..... and I can say this will not pass all the stuff was missing when we got the bike.
                    Well then , it'd be worth your time to make sure it was done right then . I've done it myself . Not rocket surgery , but unless you have a good idea what does what and why , then muddling through might make one overlook some things . Like the tubes on the bottoms of the carbs that need to be plugged , for instance ....
                    I am a fluffy lil cuddly lovable bunny , dammit !



                    Katrider's rally 2011 - md86

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Jets jets jets

                      So the further sage wisdom from here has lead me to the following.

                      Took the Dynojet kit out..

                      Went back to 120 mains, 32.5 pilot, stock needles.1.55 air correction, new O rings for the idle air mix screw ( 2.5 TURNS OUT ), new O rings for the intake boots, stock air box, stock air filter..Sync the carbs and guess what.

                      ITS PERFECT, smooth idle, fires right up, runs a HAIR rich..
                      Yosh pipes..

                      My ONLY mistake was I reved the bike up a bit much while the carb sticks were still connected..

                      SSLLUURRPPPPPPPPPPP and all the blue Pro Motion fluid went up in smoke!

                      So THANKS!

                      Now on to front end...

                      Mike

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I am a fluffy lil cuddly lovable bunny , dammit !



                        Katrider's rally 2011 - md86

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          at least it wasn't mercury!

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