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Brand New Battery won't hold a charge!

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  • Brand New Battery won't hold a charge!

    My '00 katana has been sitting all winter and I wanted to get it up and running for the season. Last season, my battery wasn't holding a charge for very long so I figured I'd get a new battery.

    I just bought a new battery a few weeks ago from http://www.powersportsuperstore.com, which by the way they had the best price and shipped super fast. I ordered it on a Monday night and had it by Wednesday. I bought the "BikeMaster Platinum 12V9-B BP Sealed AGM Battery."

    My understanding is that the Sealed AGM means that the acid is factory installed and the battery is pre-charged and ready to go, so I installed the battery today, and when I go to start the bike I get nothing. I figure the battery has been sitting on a shelf for a while and may be dead, so I hook it up to my car (car engine off) and jump start the bike. The bike starts right up (well after about a dozen cranks since it's carbuerated), and I let it warm up for about 5 minutes. I proceed to take it for a ride around the block, but I forget the kickstand and when I put it in gear the engine kills. I put the kickstand up, and the try to start it up, but the battery is dead again. I jump start it again, and take it for a 10 minute ride. I park the bike at my garage, shut it off to see if the battery was charged during the ride, but it is dead again (not weak, dead).

    I took the battery out and hooked it up to a 2 amp trickle charger in hopes that this will charge the battery up. Am I missing anything? Will this work? If I leave the trickle charger on overnight, will that damage the battery. The battery calls for 0.8 amps for 5 hours, or 4 amps for 1 hour to charge it up. I have the option for 2 or 10 amps on my trickle charger.

    Could the battery be bad?

    Could it be my alternator?

    Does anybody have any experience with these bikemaster platinum batteries, or any other similar batteries?

    I really don't know much about batteries, so any help would be appreciated.

    Thnaks in advance

  • #2
    If alternator is charging ,thats what is keeping the bike running when you remove the boost
    If you have a volt meter you should be above 12 volts when the bike is running -no boost

    I would try 2 amps for 2 hours
    Does the battery have any voltage , some battery chargers wont start unless they read voltage /polarity
    you can fool the charger by connecting charger to agm battery , connecting a boost, plug in charger to wall outlet , remove boost

    It is possible that you got a defective battery, check around with your local auto suppliers like a pep boyz, napa, carquest and see if they can bench test the battery
    Last edited by rexazz2; 03-28-2009, 09:28 PM.
    Blood , its in you to give! http://www.blood.ca/

    Comment


    • #3
      AGM batteries come in two types -- factory sealed and self-sealed. Factory sealed come preloaded with acid and should be ready to use. Self-sealed normally come empty and you add the acid and then insert the sealer strip over the battery cels -- this kind needs to sit for a couple hours for the acid to settle into all the nooks & crannies of the glass matting, then be charged for many hours to bring it up to full before use.

      Question: Was the battery you took out any significantly heavier than the one you put in? A lot of firms ship batteries without any acid in them (to comply with shipping regulations of the various carriers); if your new battery is acid-less, it won't hold any charge and the bike will be dead as soon as it shuts down. It will also be likely to damage your charging system to run the bike with an acidless-battery (the rectifier system depends on the battery absorbing some excess charge as the RPM's change).

      Meanwhile, if you're charging it at 2 Amps, cycle the charge. In other words, charge it for 20 minutes, then let it rest for an hour, then charge it for 20 minutes, rest for an hour. This will help keep it from overheating and/or over-pressurizing.
      Either that, or go buy a proper low-amperage charger suitable for motorcycle batteries, which is a much better solution.

      Meanwhile, break out the voltage tester.
      Voltage should be above 12.7-13.2 volts fully charged, and then 12 hours later (without hooking it up to anything) should be the same as the initial reading or higher.

      Cheers,
      =-= The CyberPoet

      __________________________________________________ ________
      CyberPoet's Katana Maintence and Upgrade Parts Offerings
      The Best Metal Steel Aluminum Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.
      Remember The CyberPoet

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the quick reply Rex.

        So the alternator is fine if the bike runs without the boost. So if I were to disconnect the battery when the bike was running, it would shut off instantly, right?

        The battery had some voltage before I hooked it up. I have a digital volt meter that I use for house electric, so I tested it with that. After I wrote this message, I went down to check on the battery. With the trickle charger on for a few hours @ 2 amps, I tested the voltage of the battery with the charger still on it, and it came to 15.31 volts. When I disconnected the charger, it read 13.2 volts, but it kept falling .01 at a time, eventually to 12.76 where it is now. I guess it takes a bit for the voltage to normalize after charging it. Hopefully the battery will stay above 12 volts over night with no charger on it.

        If the battery is over 12 volts tomorrow and I successfully start the bike with it, and then shut the bike off a few minutes later. After that, if I try to start the bike again and I have a dead battery, is it safe to assume that the battery is bad?

        Thanks,

        Originally posted by The CyberPoet View Post
        AGM batteries come in two types -- factory sealed and self-sealed. Factory sealed come preloaded with acid and should be ready to use. Self-sealed normally come empty and you add the acid and then insert the sealer strip over the battery cels -- this kind needs to sit for a couple hours for the acid to settle into all the nooks & crannies of the glass matting, then be charged for many hours to bring it up to full before use.

        Question: Was the battery you took out any significantly heavier than the one you put in? A lot of firms ship batteries without any acid in them (to comply with shipping regulations of the various carriers); if your new battery is acid-less, it won't hold any charge and the bike will be dead as soon as it shuts down. It will also be likely to damage your charging system to run the bike with an acidless-battery (the rectifier system depends on the battery absorbing some excess charge as the RPM's change).

        Meanwhile, if you're charging it at 2 Amps, cycle the charge. In other words, charge it for 20 minutes, then let it rest for an hour, then charge it for 20 minutes, rest for an hour. This will help keep it from overheating and/or over-pressurizing.
        Either that, or go buy a proper low-amperage charger suitable for motorcycle batteries, which is a much better solution.

        Meanwhile, break out the voltage tester.
        Voltage should be above 12.7-13.2 volts fully charged, and then 12 hours later (without hooking it up to anything) should be the same as the initial reading or higher.

        Cheers,
        =-= The CyberPoet

        __________________________________________________ ________
        CyberPoet's Katana Maintence and Upgrade Parts Offerings
        The Best Metal Steel Aluminum Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.
        I believe this battery is factory sealed. Bikebandit.com states that this battery is ready to use out of the box. This battery has the plastic strip with the 6 circles on top already in place, and what looks to be a factory seal sticker on top of it. I bought an acid-free battery for a friend once, and it came with acid tubes which we filled up, charged, and the battery was good.

        Right now the battery reads 12.72. I will wait half an hour more and charge it for another 20 minutes like you say, and perhaps do it once more tonight, and see what the voltage is tomorrow.

        Thanks for the help, I'll let you know how it turns out.

        The only reason I spent the extra dough on the factory-sealed battery was so I wouldn't have to deal with this charging stuff.
        Last edited by smokeyob; 03-28-2009, 10:10 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by smokeyob View Post
          Right now the battery reads 12.72. I will wait half an hour more and charge it for another 20 minutes like you say, and perhaps do it once more tonight, and see what the voltage is tomorrow.
          Voltage normally shouldn't drop when it's disconnected (should actually increase when coming off a charge, as more fresh acid moves in towards the plates) -- that's why you do the 12 hour shelf voltage test. If the voltage continues to drop, it would imply that either sheets of metal material in the battery are touching (uncommon with glass matting between them), or that enough of the metal has broken off the plates and dropped to the bottom of the cells to bridge the plates (too much rough handling in transit).

          Finally: it needs to be at least 12.65 12.7 volts when it goes into the bike to have enough juice to properly spin up the engine. Although it's listed as a 12-volt battery, that's a nominal value used for reference in the industry that dates back over 50 years -- 12.0 volts won't spin up the motor (either at all, or enough to actually get it to catch & fire).

          Good luck!
          =-= The CyberPoet
          Remember The CyberPoet

          Comment


          • #6
            alternator is not designed to charge a dead battery ,it put on a huge load and causes a lot of heat to components

            If voltage of battery is still good, re install in bike
            start up bike with out boost and check with volt meter to see if voltage goes up while running

            batteries are funny , you can have a good voltage reading but as soon as you load them the voltage and amperage isn't there
            Last edited by rexazz2; 03-29-2009, 07:12 AM.
            Blood , its in you to give! http://www.blood.ca/

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by The CyberPoet View Post
              Voltage normally shouldn't drop when it's disconnected (should actually increase when coming off a charge, as more fresh acid moves in towards the plates) -- that's why you do the 12 hour shelf voltage test. If the voltage continues to drop, it would imply that either sheets of metal material in the battery are touching (uncommon with glass matting between them), or that enough of the metal has broken off the plates and dropped to the bottom of the cells to bridge the plates (too much rough handling in transit).

              Finally: it needs to be at least 12.65 12.7 volts when it goes into the bike to have enough juice to properly spin up the engine. Although it's listed as a 12-volt battery, that's a nominal value used for reference in the industry that dates back over 50 years -- 12.0 volts won't spin up the motor (either at all, or enough to actually get it to catch & fire).

              Good luck!
              =-= The CyberPoet
              All great info. It's been about 10 hours or so after my multiple 20-minute charges, and the voltage now reads 12.65 volts on the new battery. I also charged the old battery yesterday for comparison purposes, and it also reads 12.65 volts this morning. That seams borderline for starting the bike like you said, I hope it works.

              I am wondering if I even needed a new battery. Maybe I could have just charged the old one. Let me ask you this, if the bike sat there for about 4-5 months with the battery installed, what would that do to the battery? Would it just drain it almost completely, and then I could revive the battery by charging it, or does that ruin the battery?

              Thanks,

              Originally posted by rexazz2 View Post
              alternator is not designed to charge a dead battery ,it put on a huge load and causes a lot of heat to components

              If voltage of battery is still good, re install in bike
              start up bike with out boost and check with volt meter to see if voltage goes up while running

              batteries are funny , you can have a good voltage reading but as soon as you load them the voltage and amperage isn't there
              I will try in a few hours with my 12.65 volt battery. After I crank the engine a few times, and if the bike doesn't start, should I expect the voltage on the battery to drop a bit? Once the bike is started, how long does it take for the alternator to charge up the battery back to full capacity, so that if I shut it down I will be able to start it again? A few minutes or so?

              I guess I don't understand car/motorcycle batteries like I do other technical things.
              Last edited by smokeyob; 03-29-2009, 09:39 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by smokeyob View Post
                I am wondering if I even needed a new battery. Maybe I could have just charged the old one. Let me ask you this, if the bike sat there for about 4-5 months with the battery installed, what would that do to the battery? Would it just drain it almost completely, and then I could revive the battery by charging it, or does that ruin the battery?
                Every time the battery discharges significantly, it loses 25 - 40% of it's remaining long-term storage capacity. This is why it's so critical to keep the batteries on trickle chargers when not in use.
                The big difference between automotive/motorcycle batteries and marine (deep-cycle batteries) -- the deep-cycle batteries only lose 1/2 to 1% of their storage capacity on a deep discharge. Unfortunately, I have not found a suitable deep-cycle battery in the size/power requirements for the Kat from any manufacturer.

                Originally posted by smokeyob View Post
                I will try in a few hours with my 12.65 volt battery. After I crank the engine a few times, and if the bike doesn't start, should I expect the voltage on the battery to drop a bit?
                Yes. As the power comes out of the battery (to power the starter), the chemistry in the battery depletes, and the result is that the voltage drops.

                Cheers,
                =-= The CyberPoet

                __________________________________________________ ________
                CyberPoet's Katana Maintence and Upgrade Parts Offerings
                The Best Metal Steel Aluminum Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.
                Remember The CyberPoet

                Comment


                • #9
                  Looks like the battery just needed a good charge. I should have put a voltmeter to the battery when I got it to make sure, I assumed it was going to be fully charged like the website I bought it from claimed it would.

                  I installed the 12.65 volt battery, and then I guess from the clock the voltage was a bit lower. When I turned the key to ON the voltage dropped to about 11.9 or 12, I guess for the headlight etc. The bike started right up. I noticed the voltage shoot up to about 14.5/15 volts while the bike was warming up. After it was warmed up, I reved it a bit and shut it down. I went to gear up for a quick ride, then came back a few minutes later, and she started right up again. Rode for about 30 minutes (it's been 5 months since my last ride, so I didn't want to get off), but finally had to bring it back because there was a hail storm in the forecast and it was getting black out. When I got back, and I shut it down, took off my gear, and tried to start it a few minutes later, started right up, and it sounded like there was plenty of juice in the battery.

                  I just hope I didn't mess up the long-term power storage capabilities that bad, after trying to use it without a proper charge. Now I know for the future.

                  And it seems that my original battery may still be good. I will monitor it throughout the week and see if it holds a charge. If it does, is there any way I can preserve the battery for future use? Can I discharge it and store it for a year, or even years, or do they just go bad after a while?

                  Thanks for all your help guys.

                  Someone should consider making this post a "sticky," this info may be useful to other people just getting their bikes out for the season.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    With the voltage jumping to 14.5/15 the alternator is charging

                    if it is going to be sitting you should put on this type of charger they are FULLY automatic
                    http://batterytender.com/default.php...7323973380831d
                    I put my battery in the basement for the winter and attach charger
                    When I put the battery back in for the season I put on the supplied leeds so I can just plug in( like a trailer plug ) if the bike sits due to cold weather
                    it is better to keep charged
                    Blood , its in you to give! http://www.blood.ca/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by smokeyob View Post
                      And it seems that my original battery may still be good. I will monitor it throughout the week and see if it holds a charge. If it does, is there any way I can preserve the battery for future use? Can I discharge it and store it for a year, or even years, or do they just go bad after a while?
                      What you need to do is keep it hooked to a trickle/float charger to keep it full for the entire storage period. According to the various battery manufacturers I've spoken to the engineering types from, a typical power-sports battery should be able to be kept at full-charge (with a charger topping it off as needed) for 12 to 15 years. rexazz2 pointed you at a good solution, and while I prefer the same firm's water-proof unit (Deltran BatteryTender Waterproof 800) for the obvious reasons, there are a myriad of good chargers on the market.

                      Batteries go bad from only three basic reasons:
                      1. Heat. Excess heat can change the chemistry involved (sulfating), and can cook off the acids.
                      2. Vibration. Small pieces of the plates fall to the bottom of the battery and ultimately will bridge the gap between the plates, shorting them.
                      3. Repeated deep discharging. Since the chemistry gets altered each discharge cycle on normal batteries and reduces the storage capacity, it's just a matter of how many cycles will it take for it not be able to store enough juice to actually turn the starter over fast enough?

                      Cheers,
                      =-= The CyberPoet

                      __________________________________________________ ________
                      CyberPoet's Katana Maintence and Upgrade Parts Offerings
                      The Best Metal Steel Aluminum Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.
                      Remember The CyberPoet

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I didnt go waterproof charger since my kat is house trained
                        If only we all lived some place warm enough to ride year round
                        Blood , its in you to give! http://www.blood.ca/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rexazz2 View Post
                          With the voltage jumping to 14.5/15 the alternator is charging

                          if it is going to be sitting you should put on this type of charger they are FULLY automatic
                          http://batterytender.com/default.php...7323973380831d
                          I put my battery in the basement for the winter and attach charger
                          When I put the battery back in for the season I put on the supplied leeds so I can just plug in( like a trailer plug ) if the bike sits due to cold weather
                          it is better to keep charged
                          Sounds like a great investment, I can't tell you how many times I have had battery problems and it ruined my riding plans.

                          I can also use it for car batteries if I need to, right? It shows the cigarette lighter adapter for that reason.

                          Originally posted by The CyberPoet View Post
                          What you need to do is keep it hooked to a trickle/float charger to keep it full for the entire storage period. According to the various battery manufacturers I've spoken to the engineering types from, a typical power-sports battery should be able to be kept at full-charge (with a charger topping it off as needed) for 12 to 15 years. rexazz2 pointed you at a good solution, and while I prefer the same firm's water-proof unit (Deltran BatteryTender Waterproof 800) for the obvious reasons, there are a myriad of good chargers on the market.
                          I like the waterproof option better, as my Kat lives outside during riding season (with a cover on it). I was just thinking about how to keep the unit dry. The waterproof unit doesn't come with the cig. lighter adapter, but I can get that for 8 bucks if I need, and then the 25-foot extension is 10 bucks. So for 75 bucks, about the price of a low end battery, I can get my batteries to last for years. Looks like I'm in for one.

                          I usually do a lot of research on products before I buy them, so I'll ask you this: Is this the best charger out there, or is there something better I should look into? Do you recommend this one? Price is not an issue, I don't mind paying for quality products.

                          Thanks,
                          Last edited by smokeyob; 03-29-2009, 08:04 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by smokeyob View Post
                            I usually do a lot of research on products before I buy them, so I'll ask you this: Is this the best charger out there, or is there something better I should look into? Do you recommend this one? Price is not an issue, I don't mind paying for quality products.
                            While there are technically better chargers out there for certain rare circumstances (desulfating batteries, etc.), this is more than up to the task and the only one I've found that is truly waterproof in the right power-output for the Kat. It's the one I use here in Florida, with my bike parked in the parking lot.
                            If you already know you're going to be stringing 75 feet of cord out to it, either get some heat-shrink tubing and cover the mating splices between the plugs (i.e. - from the charger to the extension, from the extension to the next extension), or acquire a long standard 12V extension cord (orange, home depot, etc) and run that out to the charger at the bike. I found when I strung the 12V cable out that long, people didn't tend to see it in the dark, so I switched to using a proper extension cord and leaving the charger on the seat of the bike instead (since then, I've build a custom motorcycle spot with a power-outlet right at the bikes).

                            Cheers,
                            =-= The CyberPoet

                            __________________________________________________ ________
                            CyberPoet's Katana Maintence and Upgrade Parts Offerings
                            The Best Metal Steel Aluminum Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.
                            Remember The CyberPoet

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hello,

                              I got some new battery issues/questions myself:

                              Just received a new Yuasa battery for my 2000 Kat. I know it says "This battery comes to you filled with electrolyte and has abeen sealed and fully chartged at the factory." But just incase I check and it's less than 12.8 V, I want to have my bases covered.

                              I've read the instructions, but want to confirm a few things:

                              1. Under where it says it's ready to go it says:

                              "For refresh charge, follow the instrucitons carefully"

                              When testing the voltage, what reading would indicate the need for a "refresh charge"?

                              2. In the event I do need a refresh charge, after adding the electrolytes, is letting it settle for 3 hours enough time?

                              3. So after adding the electrolytes, and waiting the correct amount of time for it to settle, it's time to charge. I have a Deltran Battery Tender Waterproof 800. How can I properly use the battery tender to provide the initial charge (e.g., how long should I have it hooked to it?).

                              4. After the initial charge, properly seat the strip of caps and then just install it in the bike or let it sit some more?

                              Thanks.
                              The Armor of God - Never leave home without it!

                              Comment

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