New Kat Owner; few starting questions...

[XLR81ON]

Just got a new '99 Kat 600 yesterday; and absolutely love it... But have a few questions regarding operation.

First off; just want to check to see if I didn't get ripped off... I did my h/w, & it seems like a good price; but.... '99 Kat 600, 17K miles, no mods, new R tire, new chain, 2 owners, 1 accident- damage to right fairing (not too bad); $1500


OK, with that out of the way... I've never owner a m-cycle b4... but am quickly getting the hang of it.. I know engines, I work for Detriot Diesel as an Engineer; but have never owned or ridden a motorcycle so I don't know what it supposed to sound/act like. Some mechanical questions have popped up in my mind while riding it over the past two days.

Transmission:
There seems to be some gear play. if the gears are not taught, and I accelerate I'll hear (& ~feel) a bit of gear lash.
The clutch seems noisy when shifting into first. It makes a "clunk"... not loud, but noticably more than the other gears..
What's the proper way to shift in and out of Neutral? when in N; I have to disengage the clutch, shift up (still in N), engage/dis the clutch, then shift down... Then I'm in first
To shift into N; when I'm in 1st, I do a 1/2 shift up then I'm in N.

Engine:
It sounds not as "tuned" as I'm used to an engine sounding; but I'm used to Fuel Injected cars and turbo diesels... Doesn't sound abnormal, unless I'm on it riding it., then it sounds very old school mechanical... not a big surprise, it is a carb engine.. but m-cycles from the pedestrian stand point don't sound like this.
When the Kat is cold; I have to adjust the f/a mix needle. after it hot, the RPMs stay high; so I adjust it again. Should I need to be adjusting the mix everytime I ride it?
Seems like the idle likes to stick around 2K; haven't been noticing it as much lately.. but defininately yesterday right after I bought it. It will drop to stay around 2K; and then slowly go down to about 1.8K then drop to 1K.

I don't know for certain if the prev owner changed the oil when he said he did.. So I figure I would just go ahead and replace all the fluids; seems like the best thing to do... Is there a link to how to do this on a m-cycle? What other fluids should I change?

...Oh yeah, and my tank is getting down close to E; What type of gas does it take? 87, 93? something else?

Seems to be about it. I love my new Kat; its almost like flying everytime I'm on it.. Its amazing.

[md86]

Okay , well , the shifting thing sounds pretty much normal as far as I can tell (eyes a bit blurry , long story ) . The idle thing ... well , you starting it with the choike on ? Adjusting the idle should be done when the bike's warm , and it should be around 1200-1500 for the 600's . Start with choke on , set choke so bike will idle around 2k-ish , slowly take off choke after less than a minute . After several miles it should be warm enough to adjust idle , so do it then .
Hanging idle is usually caused by dirty or slightly misadjusted carbs . Try running some Techron or Sea Foam or something a couple of tanks (87 should be good enough if the engine hasn't been tinkered with too much ... ) and see if the hanging idle changes . If not , then it'll be time to dig into the carbs .
Back after WWII I believe it was , alot of pilots coming back from the war got into motorcycles because it was the closest thing to flying they could get . Yeah , they're fun , but sometimes they require some work to get them running just right .

[woobie]

Congrats on your new ride.

If it's a 99 look into when all the lines were replaced, the brake lines are supposed to be replaced every 4 years. But if the previous owner didn't ride much he may have not bothered with that.

How many miles do you have on it? you may also need a valve adjustment and or new spark plugs.


Oil change and a brake fluid change would be the definate things to do.

[ZukiFred]

Here is a link to some useful information that might help you out a little.

http://www.pacifier.com/~trinc/katana/

[XLR81ON]

Thanks everyone!


ZukiFred:
Thanks! I actually found this site last night; it does do a good job with the oil.. and the carb sync.. but the rest doesn't seem to relate to me. And it doesn't touch changing brake fluid. And I've been up and down all over this bike and can't seem to find the ignition fluid. I was told definately to change that! (just kidding, I'll never get the chance to write something like that again!)

woobie
The previous owner definitely did not change the lines, I'm just hoping he changed the oil when he said he did. I popped the gas tank b4 I bought it to see if it had any rust; but it was really hard to tell. I wasn't sure what I was looking for, the bottom was definately the light amber color of gasoline... but the bottom did not look shiny like bare metal. It looked a bit rough, like a sediment was on it. Thinking back, it might have rust in it. I thought I would run it out of gas, and take a good hard look; but is there another way? If it does have rust, what do I do?


Yes, I start it with the choke on.. and it will start alright, how long should I keep the choke on? It seems to me that if I were to leave the choke on for the first 5 mins or so It would have a shot at staying running... I'll have to play around with it.. What is it supposed to be doing? Start with the choke, run it until it gets hot, gradutally lowering the choke until choke is off and the engine is still running (no matter if it takes 5 minutes, and I can run it with choke on) then adjust the needle for a nice smooth idle?

There seems to be a little play in the throttle, about a mm; is there a way to tighten it?

[woobie]

I usually start the bike with the choke, put on my helmet and turn off the choke, gloves on then ride off. In Colder weather I've found I need to leave the choke on longer and let it idle a few minutes or she'll bog if If try to accellerate.

If you've got sludge in your tank I wouldn't run the gas through the engine, drain the tank and rinse it out to see if it's bad gas or rust. Otherwise your just contaminating your carbs. Which probably need cleaning anyway.

[The CyberPoet]

(A) The throttle needs to have a little play to keep the cables from binding in the sheaths. 1/2mm should be more than enough under normal circumstances. There are cable adjustors at the beginning of the cable sheath directly under the throttle control pods -- rotate to tighten, loosen. In ideal settings, releasing the cable should make an barely audible snap back to idle position (bike off), and there should be no change of RPM (bike running) if you rotate the handle bars all the way left-to-right.
Choke should be on for 30 seconds or less in all but the coldest of weather; the choke is a misnomer, it's an enrichment circuit and will foul plugs up if used excessively. After 30 seconds, if it still won't idle, use the throttle to keep it at 2k RPM until it will.

(B) I'm with MD86 on the hanging idle. If it hangs around 2k then drops some and finally drops the rest of the way, it's usually dried fuel residue (sometimes it's a binding throttle cable or one set too tight, such as the return cable). Techron fuel system cleaner for a couple tanks should clear it up. Use 1/3rd of a bottle per full tank, which should give you the max strength on the package (since a bottle normally treats 15 gallons and you have a five gallon tank).

(C) Assume the previous owner didn't do maint when it was supposed to be done, and do everything it might need (unless you can find evidence/proof that it was done -- might want to call the local suzuki shop and see if they have a service history) -- this will give you experience and peace of mind. The factory shop manual (Suzuki brand, not Haynes, etc) is the bible and you can't go wrong with it. For a '99, that would mean:
New brake lines, caliper seals, brake fluid. SpeedBleeders optional but wise and makes the process simpler. Brake lines get replaced every 4 years. Brake fluid every 2. Brake caliper seals every time the pistons get pushed back all the way in (by the book) or at least every 4th year (same as the lines).
Valve adjustment, oil & filter change, plugs & air air filter change. Check cam chain tension. Clean & lube chain (see CyberPoet's Motorcycle Chains - understanding wear and maintenance for more info). Retorque the 30 bolts to spec (everything from exhaust header bolts to brake caliper bolts -- see the factory manual for the list).

(D) Rust in the gas tank. If it's there, it will look like rust -- just as if you were looking at the inside of a pail with some rust. Presence of an orange paste in the carb bowls is also a clear indication that there is rust. To deal with it, see myCyberPoet's "How to deal with rust in your motorcycle gas tank" at MotorcycleAnchor.com

(E) If either of the tires are original, replace them. Five years is the age-guideline for tire replacement even if they aren't worn, as the VOC's dry out and the tires become hard and unreliable in grip. A '99 would have a '99 or '98 year of tire manufacture imprinted in the sidewall if the tire is original.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[XLR81ON]

Youch! Lots!


OK... Buy the Kat service manual... Check; in the mail.


(A) .. I think I'll wait for the service manual; I need pictures for this one!!

After 30 seconds, if it still won't idle, use the throttle to keep it at 2k RPM until it will.
Done; work ok... probably need to wait for the techron to work better.

(B).. Techron check

(C)..
Pushing the brakes off until next pay check.. (they work fine) the engine is more important right now.

Bought gunk oil cleanser from at advanced auto today.. will put it in tonight then change the oil, Mobile 5000 non-synthetic.. Will drive that for a month then change it again for moble 1 (synthetic). new oil filter, check...

Air filter.. advance doesn't have it.. Need to find a bike shop.




How do I clean the carb? buy that Carb cleaner from advance & follow instructions? How do I resync the carb? and what on earth do I do with the valves? I'm sure there are hyperlinks to each.. just haven't found it yet... I will worry about the cam chain & the plugs after the cycle's service manual arrives..

I assume I can just get chain lube from a bike shop?

"30 bolts"? ok... wait for the manual...


(D)
I saw the "how to" on gas cleaning... but I took a second look yesterday... it really doesn't look TOO bad.. I saw what seemed to be clean metal at the bottom of my tank.. I still need to drain it completely, and look at it bare.

(E)
One tire is brand new.. the other (front) is date coded '02. It's fairing ok.. but should be changed within a year.

[The CyberPoet]

Bought gunk oil cleanser from at advanced auto today.. will put it in tonight then change the oil, Mobile 5000 non-synthetic.. Will drive that for a month then change it again for moble 1 (synthetic). new oil filter, check...

STOP!!!

Do not use Gunk or any other brand of oil system cleaner in the bike unless you are ready to do at least two oil changes back to back about 10 minutes apart!

The way the system is designed, you only change about 65 - 75% of the oil at any oil change (there are oil storage areas that don't drain in the tranny, in the cooler, in various places in the engine). If you dump the contents of the oil cooler, you've increased this to about 88%, but it's still not 100% of the oil, meaning that the light petrolium products in the Gunk Engine Flush are still in your oil system (although diluted). Running the bike up to circulate the new oil around and then dumping it again (including the cooler again) will net you about 98% of the oil (88% the first time, and 88% the second time, giving you about 98% of the old stuff coming out). Additionally, there may be issues with using the engine flush on your clutch pads (which sit in the same motor oil); I haven't had any issues doing so on previous bikes, but I won't tell you that it might not cause some issues.

Doing the dual oil change without the oil flush will usually also work well, although I'd say push it to about 100 miles between the changes unless you intentionally use a light-weight oil as a flushing oil (i.e. - something like straight 10 weight).

KNOW THIS:
Car motor oils are not the same as motorcycle motor oils, and the latest API spec motor oils are not suitable to your Katana which wants API SF/SG rated oils. Use of an API SF/SG rated motor oil which is also JASO-MA rated will give you the best protection you can get. There is a reasonably long list of such oils on the market, including:
Mobil 1 MX4T (10w40)
Mobil 1 V-Twin (20w50)
Castrol ACT/Evo
Castrol GPS
Royal Purple CycleMax
some Motul oils
Motorex 10w40, 15w50 and 20w50
etc.

For a better understanding of motorcycle motor oils, the differences and how to choose, see CyberPoet's How to Understand and Choose Motorcycle Motor Oils, at MotorcycleAnchor.com

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[XLR81ON]

oh.. $%#&..


well... I guess it was fait that I decided to go after some gear tonight... *feew...

ok.. so I need to return the advanced oil & gunk and find a true motor cycle shop.

I assume the oil filter is still ok? Fram brand... or should I get another?

[The CyberPoet]

oh.. $%#&..


well... I guess it was fait that I decided to go after some gear tonight... *feew...

ok.. so I need to return the advanced oil & gunk and find a true motor cycle shop.

I assume the oil filter is still ok? Fram brand... or should I get another?

FRAM is the single worst brand (IMHO) to put on there. There have been some reports in major motorcycle magazines of the adhesive used to hold the element actually liquifying in heavy motorcycle-application use and then resolidifying in the engine. Plus the inside is crappy construction. Stick with the OEM filter and if you're trying to save some bucks, know that the OEM filter is rated for three-oil-changes (although few push it that far in the USA).
As for parts (plugs, filters, etc), order it from RonAyers.com along with anything else you need (so you only get hit with one shipping fee), or at least compare prices to your local dealership. My local Suzuki dealership gives me a 10% discount on everything across the board because I'm a frequent customer -- but I still order mail order when it makes sense.

You may also want to see what other MC shops are in your area (to compare pricing, availability), and what your local auto parts store can do (they may be able to order motorcycle-specific oils and the right plugs for you under the dealer's price -- sometimes). I know Auto Zone in our area carries Valvoline ATV Motor Oil as a API SF/SG-rated JASO-MA rated 10w40 at a very cheap price (about $3.19/liter), and they also carry Valvoline Motorcycle Oil (20w50, same ratings) at the same price. This is lowest price I've seen on non-discounted motorcycle-specific/rating-appropriate motor oil in quite some time. I don't use it, but I know riders who do...

Finally, CycleGear is a nationwide chain that is doing a big push on opening new stores -- you may want to check if they have opened one in your area recently. They have a really good oil selection (if not the cheapest prices)...

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[XLR81ON]

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to cheap out when it comes to engine protection.. I will assume its not been taken care of in its life (although, I hope I'm wrong) and as such, I want to do what I can to prevent future wear and damage.

If you say FRAM is bad; I will get rid of it too.

I want to clean out the motor to get rid of whatever gunk is in there... How would I do that?

[The CyberPoet]

I want to clean out the motor to get rid of whatever gunk is in there... How would I do that?

The best way would be to dump as much of the existing oil out of there as possible -- dump the oil cooler, oil cooler line and leave the drain out for a couple hours, then put in a cheap motorcycle specific oil (like the valvoline or a Castrol ACT/Evo), run it up to temp (or drive 50 to 100 miles) and then dump it too and replace it with whatever final oil you will run. The detergents in the motorcycle-specific oil should clean out the gunk fairly well, because that JASO-MA specification is pretty strong on detergent loads, and by doing the dual oil-changes you will have changed about 95 - 98% of the oil.

Do the following oil change at an accelerated schedule (say 2000 miles instead of 3500). use some high-detergent-load fuels in the interim (Chevron, Shell V3, etc), and you should be all set.

KNOW THIS:
:Arrow: Chevron Techron fuel-system cleaner helps break up carbon and sulfated ash compounds at the cylinder in addition to cleaning the carbs and fuel system. If you suspect there is a lot of such build-up, run a heavy load of it through between the two initial oil changes.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[XLR81ON]

Just wanted to tell you, the techron worked wonders.. the bike is no longer getting stuck @ 2K...


Soon after I changed the oil (castrol act w/ k&n filter), the engine really became much quieter, I guess it was thirsty.

[The CyberPoet]

Just wanted to tell you, the techron worked wonders.. the bike is no longer getting stuck @ 2K...

Soon after I changed the oil (castrol act w/ k&n filter), the engine really became much quieter, I guess it was thirsty.

Proper oil and good, clean carbs work wonders

Glad to be of help... buy me a dinner whenever we meet

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet