Steering Stem/wheel bearing/ fork seals questions

[tylerc]

i have a bunch of questions since i just tore apart the entire front end of my bike.

1.) what is the best way to get the races out of the stearing head?
2.) what is the best way to get the front wheel bearings out?
3.) I read that you are supposed to put the 'left' wheel bearing in first, is that the 'drivers side' or passenger side?
4.) i somehow stripped out my drain bolt on the bottom the one of the fork tubes, i will have to re-tap it obviously, but it wouldn't go in all the way, so i am wondering why? the screw acted like it was to long, what could i have put in wrong, does something have to be rotated a certain way for the drain plug to go in all the way?
5.) how do I know how tight to make the steering head?

that is all for now but as it is a big project i may have more, thanks for the help

-Tyler

[tylerc]

Anybody? just got back from chicago and am hoping to get this together

[The CyberPoet]

Knock 'em out from the other side.
Suzuki does make specialized tools for removing them, but using a deep-well socket in the same size as the inner races and tapping them out works well too.
For putting in the new ones, press them in carefully, so as not to damage them. Wood blocks and a big c-clamp can work in a pinch.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[Mojoe]

Re: Steering Stem/wheel bearing/ fork seals questions

i have a bunch of questions since i just tore apart the entire front end of my bike.

1.) what is the best way to get the races out of the stearing head?
2.) what is the best way to get the front wheel bearings out?
3.) I read that you are supposed to put the 'left' wheel bearing in first, is that the 'drivers side' or passenger side?
4.) i somehow stripped out my drain bolt on the bottom the one of the fork tubes, i will have to re-tap it obviously, but it wouldn't go in all the way, so i am wondering why? the screw acted like it was to long, what could i have put in wrong, does something have to be rotated a certain way for the drain plug to go in all the way?
5.) how do I know how tight to make the steering head?

that is all for now but as it is a big project i may have more, thanks for the help

-Tyler

1- knock them out like cyber stated.

2- same thing

3-i never heard that before. i put in whichever one i happen to choose to put in first....never had a problem.

4-is this after you tapped it? if it is, you may have shavings in the way. also, where is your speedo cable? is your speedo off the tranny, or is it off the front wheel? If it is off the front wheel, there is like a small metal hanger that bolts to the fork tube with the drain plug on some bikes. did you forget to put that back? if so, that would explain why the screw was too long. you have to be extremely careful tapping that drain hole. you do not want metal shavings inside your forks. i would suggest pulling the forks apart so you can rinse out the lower tube with solvent and blow it out good with an airhose just to be sure.

5-check the torque specs in a manual. it you don't have one, ask someone who does or go inquire at a dealers. it is not a bad idea to have it verified by someone who knows what they are doing because just a wee bit out of whack with this can make a big difference in handling. especially in leaning.

[The CyberPoet]

Re: Steering Stem/wheel bearing/ fork seals questions

My bad for not answering the left-side-first wheel bearing question

3.) I read that you are supposed to put the 'left' wheel bearing in first, is that the 'drivers side' or passenger side?

All directions on a motorcycle are taken from where you sit in the driver's seat. Thus, your left is the same as the driver's side of a car in car terms. The reason for the left-side-first issue is differences in bearing sizes, how far they seat and how likely you are to damage the opposite ones when using this method (using the Suzuki tool). I don't know if it applies to the pre-98's, because I only have limited amounts of hands-on mechanical experience with them -- but it certainly applies to the 98+ models.

4-is this after you tapped it? if it is, you may have shavings in the way. also, where is your speedo cable? is your speedo off the tranny, or is it off the front wheel? If it is off the front wheel, there is like a small metal hanger that bolts to the fork tube with the drain plug on some bikes. did you forget to put that back? if so, that would explain why the screw was too long. you have to be extremely careful tapping that drain hole. you do not want metal shavings inside your forks. i would suggest pulling the forks apart so you can rinse out the lower tube with solvent and blow it out good with an airhose just to be sure.

By the fact that he has drain taps on his forks, he has a pre-98 (and an early year at that) -- 98+ never had the taps. This means he does have the speedo coming off a gear-tooth wheel on the front wheel, which (if memory serves me correctly) is on the left side (or driver's side in his parlance).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[Mojoe]

All directions on a motorcycle are taken from where you sit in the driver's seat. Thus, your left is the same as the driver's side of a car in car terms. The reason for the left-side-first issue is differences in bearing sizes, how far they seat and how likely you are to damage the opposite ones when using this method (using the Suzuki tool). I don't know if it applies to the pre-98's, because I only have limited amounts of hands-on mechanical experience with them -- but it certainly applies to the 98+ models.

This is true that one bearing seats in farther, and the other sits pretty much flush. anyway, i can see the reasoning behind suggesting the left one first because that is the one that seats deeper inside. but I still do whichever side i choose to do first cuz i have installed a ton of bearings on a gazillion things, so i know what to watch for.

[tylerc]

thanks for the help, it is all back together but i am still a little fuzzy on the steering stem torque... it uses a spanner wrench to tighten it, how would you do it to a certain torque value? my bike still has the wierd swaying, but it feels different now...

What happened with the tapping is that there is a part that had to be rotated a certain way so the slot would line up with where the screw goes in. i still had them mostly apart so i did clean it out realy well, didn't want anything clogging or grinding

I had 10wt like was recomended for the bike but at the last second decided i wanted something a little stiffer so i put 15wt in, feels so much better then my old leaky half deflated forks, but was it a good idea to put the 15wt in? (yeah, little late now i guess)

ohh, and it is a 90 if you guys were wondering.

[The CyberPoet]

thanks for the help, it is all back together but i am still a little fuzzy on the steering stem torque... it uses a spanner wrench to tighten it, how would you do it to a certain torque value? my bike still has the wierd swaying, but it feels different now...

What happened with the tapping is that there is a part that had to be rotated a certain way so the slot would line up with where the screw goes in. i still had them mostly apart so i did clean it out realy well, didn't want anything clogging or grinding

I had 10wt like was recomended for the bike but at the last second decided i wanted something a little stiffer so i put 15wt in, feels so much better then my old leaky half deflated forks, but was it a good idea to put the 15wt in? (yeah, little late now i guess)

ohh, and it is a 90 if you guys were wondering.

15 weight instead of 10 is a good choice, esp. for an older bike (where the springs may be weak or the seals on the damper aren't as good as new). The steering stem has a nut at the top center. Use it to set the torque on the bearings.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[tylerc]

well, good to hear that i did well on the oil.

now correct me if i am wrong (and i very well may be) but looking at

http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/300_0040/steering_stem/steering_stem.cfm?man=su&groupid=4920&parent=4850

it felt like 5 is what actualy sets the load on the bearings and it needs a spanner wrench (or big vice grips in my case) to tighten it. 9 which is accesable for a torque wrench seems to only hold on 7... am i missing something? how tight should i get 5?

all this work and the thing still does its wierd swaying. this helped out quite a bit with the overall feel of the bike, but i still need to hunt for the other problem, looks like the swing arm bearings may be the next job...

[Mojoe]

my bike still has the wierd swaying, but it feels different now...

like I said, it is tricky to get it right. tires, swingarm play....it all contributes to this. once your bike starts to develop "swaying", or whatever you want to call it, it can be a job eliminating it.

[The CyberPoet]

all this work and the thing still does its wierd swaying. this helped out quite a bit with the overall feel of the bike, but i still need to hunt for the other problem, looks like the swing arm bearings may be the next job...

The triple-tree assembly looks different than my 98+ in that sense. I guess you'd need a specific tool to do a torque spec on that collar nut...

Swaying is almost always from the back. General rule: at speed, anything that happens more than 4 times a second is from the front; anything that happens less than 2 times a second is from the rear.

Sounds to me like you have a misaligned rear wheel, swing arm or frame if you're getting a "swaying" as you put it.

KNOW THIS:
When replacing bearings, order All-Balls brand instead of Suzuki OEM to get harder bearings and (often) better prices. Available via any Parts Unlimited carrying-dealer (which means virtually every dealer & shop in the USA, plus all the mail order places).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[Mojoe]

The triple-tree assembly looks different than my 98+ in that sense. I guess you'd need a specific tool to do a torque spec on that collar nut...

actually, if I am not mistaken, the head is not adjusted by torque. i don't know alot about it, but I think there is a way to measure the play in the bearings. I am going to have to look into this more. My mechanic mentioned something about even 1mm of play at the headbearings can cause poor handling.

[The CyberPoet]

The triple-tree assembly looks different than my 98+ in that sense. I guess you'd need a specific tool to do a torque spec on that collar nut...

actually, if I am not mistaken, the head is not adjusted by torque. i don't know alot about it, but I think there is a way to measure the play in the bearings. I am going to have to look into this more. My mechanic mentioned something about even 1mm of play at the headbearings can cause poor handling.

There is a specific torque value in the factory manuals for this; I'm just not sure if the 98+ values are the same as what his bike ('90) takes, so I'm hesitant to list it.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[tylerc]

all balls is what i used for the front wheel/steering stem bearings i just replaced.

it isn't as much of a swaying as a kind of dodging. it doesn't feel very rythmic. thinking the rear swing arm bearing because it is the only thing that i can think of that i havn't replaced.... i have tried wheel alighnment a few times with a few people and absolutely no difference.

that would be awesome if someone could tell me how to check the play, eliminate one possible place where it could come from.

Thanks for all the help so far

[The CyberPoet]

that would be awesome if someone could tell me how to check the play, eliminate one possible place where it could come from.

Sounds like you may actually have a warped rear wheel.
To check the wheel for warpage, get a cardboard box, and a pencil. Put the box next to the wheel with the bike on the centerstand (or a race stand), then put the pencil against the rim. Rotate the wheel slowly by hand -- the pencil will be pushed backwards at the high spots, and then from that you can see what the difference is between the high spot and low spot. Make sure you check both sides. Then repeat it with the tire sidewall...

As for the swing-arm, again on the centerstand, this time with someone holding the bike down, put your pencil on the box against the swing arm and push on the swing arm on the opposite site with your foot or hand (fairly hard, but not hard enough to move the bike on the stand). See how much it pushed the pencil back when you release the pressure. Repeat on the other side. To do with various vertical levels isn't viable without removing the shock assembly of having some way of reliably compressing it -- which means it's easier to remove the bearings than test them through the whole range of motion IMHO.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet