Oil temp (not a Kat)

[Newbie2it]

Specifically a k4 GSX-R getting water in the oil. Looking for some insight from CP or those that run Antifreeze type motors. I use Mobil 1 4T 10w-40. I change my oil regularly at 3K. Currently I have 1,500 on the present oil.

No, not an antifreeze/oil leak. I'm noticing I am inducting moisture into my oil more so now that the bikes temp (antifreeze temp) guage is never achieving normal operating temps. I do highway between work and home and home to work. Bike tends to sit a lot in between sans a few store (short runs) runs. Now, that being said, I've also noticed that at highway speeds and ambient air being around 40, the antifreeze temp wont go beyond 165 - 170 degrees.

If I start the bike up after several hours of sitting at work, go to the sandwich shop down the street, I see the sight glass gets fogged, Leave the motor off for a few minutes and tip the bike to try to "wash" the window will show about a 1/16 to an 1/8 of cream on top of the oil.

I so totally suspect its due to the oil never getting up to temps like the Kat since the Kat was air/oil cooled. Being antifreeze cooled as well means theres something other added to the oil/air mix I am not used to. Maybe its a bit normal, But I never got to view my cages oil at a glance.

Driving home on the highway will clean the window and clear the oil, but if I start it tomorrow morn, I know I will see the same.

Should I block the radiator airflow so it runs a little hotter during the cold months?

[loudnlow7484]

Hmm..... Of course the first thing that comes to mind is the headgasket......

[md86]

I so totally suspect its due to the oil never getting up to temps like the Kat since the Kat was air/oil cooled.
That's what I thought , too . Not boiling off the water in there ....
Should I block the radiator airflow so it runs a little hotter during the cold months? Again , that's what I thought ! Maybe it's a redneck thing .....

[il_ragazzo]

yeah perhaps the "white cream" is water on top of you oil? perhaps thats why you have condensation on you sight glass because i dont think oil condensates does it? i would say change your oil... at least.

[Newbie2it]

Originally Posted by Newbie2it

I so totally suspect its due to the oil never getting up to temps like the Kat since the Kat was air/oil cooled.
That's what I thought , too . Not boiling off the water in there ....
Should I block the radiator airflow so it runs a little hotter during the cold months? Again , that's what I thought ! Maybe it's a redneck thing .....

Yeah.. again, the redneck thing LOL And Yes, I am still in the nor'east. So if'n I talk that way, you know I am joking.

I am so leaning towards blocking the radiator to help bring the motor up to Normal operating temps, But its why I asked here first for some insight. This is my first EFI bike.

yeah perhaps the "white cream" is water on top of you oil? perhaps thats why you have condensation on you sight glass because i don't think oil condensates does it? i would say change your oil... at least.

Ugh.. Yeah, your right, as I said above, the cream on the oil is moisture. I already know that. Changing the oil isn't an issue, but I know I will be at the same place in another 1,500 miles... Probably less since its going to get colder. Problem is I am operating with a dual cooling method to add with a very cooling airflow. il_Ragazzo, thanks for the input tho.I literally could probably change the oil now, run the bike tomorrow home/work and back/ and notice the same the following day.

My question was really about blocking the radiator to allow higher operating temps to burn off the moisture.

[Newbie2it]

Hmm..... Of course the first thing that comes to mind is the headgasket......

Uhh,, No. Ambient airs moisture laden. Its been London fog here lately, heavy fog, rainy days and torrential downpours. Nothing short of breaking out the soap on the rope and taking a bath without water directly.

[loudnlow7484]

Uhh,, No. Ambient airs moisture laden. Its been London fog here lately, heavy fog, rainy days and torrential downpours. Nothing short of breaking out the soap on the rope and taking a bath without water directly.

Hey, you say cream in oil, and I instantly get visions of blown headgaskets and cracked blocks..... I've dumped out a lot of chocolate-milk-looking oil....

Now, if you're sure it's condensation from not getting hot enough.... I've got really limited experience with water cooled bikes, and exactly zero experience trying to run them in the cold! I can't see why the semi-truck trick wouldn't work, though.... Could you possibly cover the radiator with something that has Yosemite Sam on it? Or maybe those trucker-girl silhouettes?

[Newbie2it]

Hey, you say cream in oil, and I instantly get visions of blown headgaskets and cracked blocks..... I've dumped out a lot of chocolate-milk-looking oil....

Now, if you're sure it's condensation from not getting hot enough.... I've got really limited experience with water cooled bikes, and exactly zero experience trying to run them in the cold! I can't see why the semi-truck trick wouldn't work, though.... Could you possibly cover the radiator with something that has Yosemite Sam on it? Or maybe those trucker-girl silhouettes?

LOL Yep, dead positive its not from antifreeze. The level in the overflow remains unchanged once the bikes at normal operating temps, Prior to getting to temp the level will be low, till it heats and expands. I know its cause the bikes just simply not getting hot enough I'm only acheiving about 170 on the highway for temps. Fan kicks on automatically at 218 degrees. Which it wont ever get to temp which is the boiling point of water. I dumped the oil just the same and will see how long it takes to repete itsself.

Just wish I knew how much of the radiator to cover.

[hardlydangerous]

Change the thermostat.
and go with an OEM Suzuki Tstat
Regardless of outside air temps the engine should still run at the same water temp in the winter and summer providing the thermostat, sending unit and thermostatic switch are all working ok.

As for the moisture in the oil
thats normal this time of year on all bikes, even more so on short runs when the oil temps are not getting hot enough long enough to evaportae the water in the oil.
Be sure to drain the crank case/breather tube and air box tubes often.
Both my Kat and my dirtbikes have a sight window and from time to time will have cloudy oil if not run long enough.

[The CyberPoet]

I'm not used to seeing 1/8" of true whitish cream or water floating on top of the oil, even in Germany; just oil froth is a different story.

HardlyDangerous hit all the real points on the head -- the temp at the radiator should have zero to do with the temp at the block where the oil lives; the thermostat should not be opening at all until 186-192 (F) or some such, and not be all the way open until 200 - 210 typically. That means one of two things is happening -- either the thermostat is opening when it shouldn't be (or is stuck open, or missing all-together), or the cooling system has so much corrosion in it that it can't shed heat properly -- not an option because the oil isn't boiling... (the third option, not building up pressure, isn't an option either, because the level is changing at the reservoir).

Question: on the water/coolant, what are you using (brand, mix-strength)? Did you use any water-wetter this past summer? Did you remove the thermostat at any point?

As for covering the radiator after you get the thermostat issue resolved:
If after changing the thermostat, you're still running too cold (only an issue if you're riding significantly below 40 degrees -- we used to ride at 15 degrees in Germany at times for example), cover all of the radiator, and carry a box-knife under the seat. When it gets to the point the fans want to run, kill the bike, cut away an 1/4 and drive another mile and recheck; repeat with another 1/8 each time until the temp falls where you want it to be (fans off, radiator warm). If you use cardboard, put only unprinted (brown/raw) cardboard against the radiator (print side out if using printed cardboard), and make sure the side facing the radiator is not waxed cardboard either (wax will melt and become like glue when the weather turns warmer again, holding grime & dirt as an insulation blanket over the fins).

Also: let the bike idle longer before riding off in such weather; the oil takes longer to travel around, get warm and support the various parts. Where you can take off in 60 seconds in the summer, let it have 4 or 5 minutes before loading the engine if it's below about 45 (F).

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

______________________
CyberPoet's KR Specials
Suzuki Stratosphere - 6 Cylinders, the new Katana?
The Best Motorcycle Metal Billet Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

[Newbie2it]

I'm not used to seeing 1/8" of true whitish cream or water floating on top of the oil, even in Germany; just oil froth is a different story.

HardlyDangerous hit all the real points on the head -- the temp at the radiator should have zero to do with the temp at the block where the oil lives; the thermostat should not be opening at all until 186-192 (F) or some such, and not be all the way open until 200 - 210 typically. That means one of two things is happening -- either the thermostat is opening when it shouldn't be (or is stuck open, or missing all-together), or the cooling system has so much corrosion in it that it can't shed heat properly -- not an option because the oil isn't boiling... (the third option, not building up pressure, isn't an option either, because the level is changing at the reservoir).

Question: on the water/coolant, what are you using (brand, mix-strength)? Did you use any water-wetter this past summer? Did you remove the thermostat at any point?

As for covering the radiator after you get the thermostat issue resolved:
If after changing the thermostat, you're still running too cold (only an issue if you're riding significantly below 40 degrees -- we used to ride at 15 degrees in Germany at times for example), cover all of the radiator, and carry a box-knife under the seat. When it gets to the point the fans want to run, kill the bike, cut away an 1/4 and drive another mile and recheck; repeat with another 1/8 each time until the temp falls where you want it to be (fans off, radiator warm). If you use cardboard, put only unprinted (brown/raw) cardboard against the radiator (print side out if using printed cardboard), and make sure the side facing the radiator is not waxed cardboard either (wax will melt and become like glue when the weather turns warmer again, holding grime & dirt as an insulation blanket over the fins).

Also: let the bike idle longer before riding off in such weather; the oil takes longer to travel around, get warm and support the various parts. Where you can take off in 60 seconds in the summer, let it have 4 or 5 minutes before loading the engine if it's below about 45 (F).

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

______________________
CyberPoet's KR Specials
Suzuki Stratosphere - 6 Cylinders, the new Katana?
The Best Motorcycle Metal Billet Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

Hardly hit one thing already done, the tstat, I did it as part of regular maintenance. But a few things I've learned since my original post through direct contact with Suzuki, my dealer, research and here on the web.

So I guess this is a bit of an update in reality.

GSX-r's and most sport bikes have a super effective cooling system. (my antifreeze is about 50/50. No, I dont use cheap products like water wetter. But anyhow, they are so efficient, that just a slight breeze across the radiator will help reduce the temps.

Now, I've been riding in air temp conditions of between highs of 30 and lows of 23 degrees for the last few days. I did some researching and actually, lo and behold, in the back of the Suzuki factory repair manual, on page 10-10 under the section of "Engine cooling" Sub section "Engine Over cooling" a problem solution was listed as "Riding in extreme temperatures" the solution was "Install a radiator cover"

I called Suzuki USA in Cali, a few days ago on reading this and spoke to the parts and accessories manager who proceeded to laugh and scoff at me asking for a radiator cover. Proceeded to tell me hes worked there for 20 years and never heard of such a thing. I pointed out the page and I presume he grabbed a manual and his response was pretty much.. Huh? Well, a Factory manual isn't going to recommend aftermarket parts... Hes supposed to call me back either way next week after "researching this" since its in their own damned service manuals.

Anyhow, I took that as a "Yeah you need to block it up a bit" deal, So I blocked off about 2" at the very bottom of the radiator. Tonight riding home was the low of 23 degrees. But surprisingly the bike was at 165 or so on the highway. A bit higher than my original post in a bit colder temps.

Think I am on to something.

[The CyberPoet]

Hey, if you find an OEM part number for it, please post it here or PM me with it. I'm really curious now...

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

______________________
CyberPoet's KR Specials
Suzuki Stratosphere - 6 Cylinders, the new Katana?
The Best Motorcycle Metal Billet Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

[Newbie2it]

Will definately post since I am sure I am not the only loon running a GSX with these temps. I just have to wait for Suzuki to get back to me, and/or more hunting on the web.

[md86]