93 600 won't start after only 1 day of ownership!PICS INSIDE

[Black]

Warning-long story-

I have to start in saying that this site is a life saver. I looked for days and couldn't figure out how there was not a Katana forum. I recently sold my 1997 Prelude SH. I sold it stock, and with the money from parting it out I bought a 1993 Katana 600 from my friends older brother. He said he rode it once in the last year and a half (said he used fuel stabilizer), and I got it for a gooood price.

So I had a friend ride it home, where it ran good. We rode the next day probably 100miles, ran like a dream. Then later that night, I took a girl/friend for a ride and it died after the ride in the drive way. (I played it off). It started later that night and I rode it to play poker about 1/2 mile away.

The next day, I started having problems. Basically it wouldn't start w/o the choke on, and then died at idle often, like at a stoplight while test riding. (pilot jet I have read about?)

So I take the carbs apart (my first carb work, all my cars were fuel injected), and they are DIRTY AS HELL. Rusty brown colored gunk everywhere, and when I drained the gas from the little drain screw, it was like someone mixed every color of Kool-Aid and put it into a cup. So I cleaned them out with carb cleaner, some Q-tips, and paper towels. I had to get it jump started because I left my key on overnight, but it started up and puttered, not sounding too good but it started. I rode it up the street, and on the main road, where it bogged down at higher RPMS. So I thought 'maybe the plugs are missing', and replaced them when I got home. It died on the way home at a stoplight; jumped it again and it backfired loudly about 1/4 mile away and died again.

Today it just pops (like 25% of a big backfire), and won't stay on. I took the carbs apart again, and noticed one of the float's jet is pretty clogged. Also, all the other's would spray carb cleaner out the other end, this one just barely drips:




I am also missing the o-ring for the sync things on 3 of the carbs. Think I lost them that morning. (does this have a major effect?):


Clean from yesterday:
^gunky and dirty yesterday

This is the main jet I assume?


Carbs:

What are these:


These weren't tight, the carbs pulled off with little force, and in RED the were not completely on. Does this have a big effect?


What are all of these?: I know the red is the main jet, but thats about it.


floats:



My air filter: felt very oily/greasy- is this normal?


Also, the intake was not sealed very well. Could this affect the engine much?:



Fuel filters I put on. Good or bad idea?


Plugs I replaced:


extra pic.


1)What is probably wrong? Where is this pilot jet I keep hearing about? (wire brush bristle + carb cleaner to clean it?)

2)Is the intake and/or filter good? Does it not being attached well to the carb, and the carb to the motor make the engine not run right?

3)Do I need to take anything else apart and clean?

4) ANY OTHER helpful information would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks, I can't wait to get riding again!

-Sam


PS- The bike came with a manual, but it does absolutely jack when you aren't familiar with bikes.

[Black]

Fixed the pics,and bump for a reply. I wanna knock this thing out today! (sunday)

[SweetLou]

Well, you definately need the O-Rings for the Sync area on the carbs.

We had a issued with Ne-Oublies Kat not to long ago, and it turned out one of the main issues was that those O-Rings were missing. You may also want to drain that tank, and think about sealing it if there was that much rust in the carbs, but for now those filters should deifnately help.

Another thing to think about is, a easy way to clean them.

Put them all back together (With new O-Rings), and run some Chevron Techron through. You can get that at any wal-mart or auto store. It is a fuel injection/carb cleaner. Run 1/3 of a bottle through per tank of gas, and run the whole bottle (So in esscence, 3 tanks of gas). Then do a oil change. From my understanding, that should clean the carbs to about 75%. That should be well enough to get you by for a while.

As for those O-Rings, take the 1 that you have left, and go to a hardware store, and get the replacements. Don't worry about going to the dealer to get them, you'll just end up paying a arm and a leg for them. You may also want to check the O rings in the bowl area (Where the floats are), and make sure those are still good.

When putting your carbs back together, turn your mixture screw 3 turns out. That should give you a good mix.

Good Luck!

[SweetLou]

Oh, almost forgot. The fact that your airbox was not clamped tight may have caused a slight problem, like running lean a tad bit, but I can't see it causing a huge problem unless you were not tight on the engine side.

Are you really Alfonso?????

[Black]

Haha no, people on my local car forum call me carlton, but "carton" is too boring for a s/n, so Alfonso Ribeio came to mind.

thanks a lot for the help. Which one is the mixing screw? Also I drained out the tank and I could hear some rust and stuff at the bottom. I tried to get it out, and got the extra filters so that my carb cleaning days dont have to happen every week.

Thanks again man,

Sam (real name)

[The CyberPoet]

(A) Replace the plugs

(B) Drain the fuel out of the tank and the carbs. Check the inside of the tank for rust. If found, use this instruction sheet: CyberPoet's "How to deal with rust in your motorcycle gas tank" at MotorcycleAnchor.com, makers of great motorcycle security solutions and Motorcycle Anchors!

(C) Clean the carbs again. Take a nylon bristle to the jets to clean them out in addition to the carb cleaner -- the friction from the end of the bristle will help get them clean.

(D) Get replacement O-rings. If the bike hasn't run in a year, replace all of them, including the ones between the carbs' common fuel rail. You can see the parts diagram for those carbs at www.ronayers.com

(E) IMHO: Go back to the stock air filter. The Uniflow doesn't filter nearly as well.

Q: do the carbs have a jetkit installed? Easy way to tell: if the needles have more than one groove for the C-Clip, it's an aftermarket jet-kit.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[icekillah]

did you blast carb cleaner through the pilot jets? not a very big hole but you should be able to see light through it. may need to sync the carbs if you continue to get afterfire(pops originating in the exhaust) if the bike needs choke to idle sometimes you can fix that by increasing the idle speed(screw below leftmost carb that makes contact to the butterfly between both pairs of carbs) if that dosen't work your looking at a carb sync which you'll need the missing o-rings. Or you could ignore all that BS and ride around with some starter fluid and a prayer, but do youself a favor when your putting the carbs back on first attach the airbox to the carbs then attach both airbox and carbs to the engine

[icekillah]

i don't exactally know which "air lines" you are talking about there should be 2 "fuel lines" total one for each pair of carbs. There will also be two metal peices next to where the fuel lines connect to the carb but these "air lines" should not have any rubber hoses attached to them they should just be free(not exactally sure what there used for maybe mukini found it more efficent the build it this way) the you also have a vaccum line which should only be connected from the rightmost carb to the fuel petcock) if you still have the carbs apart id screw out the idle jet and check if its clogged as well as blast the area which it screws inton but when
screwing the idle jet don't over tighten they won't all line up together (factory settings) just make them finger tight not gorilla tight(now who'd i get that from?). If your still having carb problems chances are the carbs maybe out of sync(in the picture the left pair throttle plates look way off from the right but that might just be a weird angle). if you don't have a manometer or those o rings you can't sync the carbs in the conventional way but since you have them off already you can use Carb cleaner(not the spray kind) and pour it over the throttle plates and see if they liquid levels go down at the same rate(leak past the throttle plates to see how open the plates are and compare them to one
another) Im probally not making sense anymore, kinda hard to do over the pc. happy to help out im pretty sure we all know what it feels like to be stuck in a garage. Oh just so you know your bike should use shims for the valve adjustments.

[Black]

Yeah the plates arent flush. Have been that way since I first took them apart. I think I'm taking it in tomorrow to the shop (1-2 weeks before they can touch it ) but at least this way I know it will be fixed for good. (or should). And that I wont mess anything else up. Thanks for the help.

Sam

[zleviticus]

BTW loved you in the fresh prince of bell air.. J/K

Welcome to the forums and gret pics.

[StlStallion]

Bringing this post back up cause I was having similar problems and I would like to know what some of the answers are to his questions. In the pictures I think pic 9, he points out several different things in the float bowl (main jet, pilot jet, air screw) what is the one with the three holes? Also what are the two jet looking things in the front of the carb.

[md86]

Those little holes in the float bowl are part of the pilot circuit . I never did figure out what the tiny jet-looking things are , though .

[Trigger]

Bringing this post back up cause I was having similar problems and I would like to know what some of the answers are to his questions. In the pictures I think pic 9, he points out several different things in the float bowl (main jet, pilot jet, air screw) what is the one with the three holes? Also what are the two jet looking things in the front of the carb.

If you are talking about Pic #7, the one that is off center is the pilot air jet(Page177 of the Service manual) and the other is the main air Jet(page 178 of the service manual). Both on Page 184 of the service manual, Main Air Jet is pressed in and is not removeable, the Pilot Air Jet Should be removed for cleaning (Carefully). Glad I could help.