oil change WTF?

[xbubbax]

hello all,

I did an oil chanfge on the bike over the winer, bought a oil filter, and did the change. I put 4 qts or motorcycle oil in theerr and rn the bike for about 3 weeks.

I went to check my oil today and my oil was gone, nothing is showing in the lil oil window. I know that oil travels up to the head and lubes the clutch. but my question is 4qts is alot of oil. where did it all go. i have no seal leaks.

Ive since put a qt of oil in there and when running does show full in the window. but what happened to the 1st 4qts. thats a lot of oil that nust "dissapeared" and i dont think my bike would just burn oil without a puff of blue smoke.

I Am running on the lean side for now, but would this cause a raise in oil temp and be easier to burn off? or does all the oil rush to the top end and disapate after hours of riding? i just think 4 qts of oil is alot, and when running the bike there was nothing in that window, with the bike running.

[Anonymous]

Try like 4.3

I usually use 4.2 on my 600

[xbubbax]

thats pretty much where im sitting now. around 4.3 or so, but am i burning oil becaue of the lean carb setting? or is that oil still in there and like JP said just need another 300ml?

im anxious to find out this problem.

[md86]

I did my oil change a few days ago , and filled with 4 quarts . After checking it again later it was low , so I added maybe another half-quart , so I guess you're fine . I DO have a minor leak , but nothing that'll cause me to lose any serious volume . After a couple thousand miles , I STILL drained 4 whole quarts , maybe a bit more ! (No , it didn't smell like gas , neither )

[The CyberPoet]

Total oil capacity is 5 quarts (about 4.7 liters), of which about 3.8 to 4.2 liters gets changed when you do an oil & filter change (add another 1/3 of a liter if you drain the oil cooler).

Where did it go?

(A) Check your airbox. It may be full of oil. If so, either you are missing the plastic shield under the vent box attachment on the top of the valve covers, or your rings are probably shot. If you open your airbox drain tube every oil change, you should find about a shot-glass' worth of oil and crud in there (or less) -- significantly more indicates a problem.

(B) Out the exhaust pipe (as burned oil or as liquid oil past a loose valve/bad valve stem), out the drain, out a pin-hole on one of the hoses to the oil cooler (or a pin-hole in the oil cooler), or out of a leaking gasket (oil return line, valve covers, etc).

Remember this:
When you change the oil filter, the new filter is dry. It takes several minutes of running for it to saturate all the way, so that can account for some volume loss (depending on how soon after changing the oil you rechecked it).

KNOW THIS:

Correct way to check the oil level is to park on a flat surface on the center stand, run the engine 1 to 2 minutes, then shut off and check the oil level 60 seconds to 3 minutes after shut-down. This will fill up the "reservior areas" of the engine/tranny/etc, and give you a good reading.

If you just changed the oil & filter (and/or drained the cooler), increase the run time to four to five minutes before shut-down.

Reading the engine without having run it will give you an artificially high reading; reading the engine while it's running will give you an artificially low reading.

The basic idea is to ensure there is enough oil left after all the reservior areas are filled to always keep the oil pump pick-up submerged. Although too much oil may rob you of a bit of performance, too little oil can easily damage your engine.

Good Luck!
=-= The CyberPoet

[KnightRider]

I experience the same low/high readings before and after an oil change.

I suppose I should start draining the oil-cooler....why that thought never crossed my mine.....?!?!?

I also do a filter change everytime, and used 4.3 this time....but that was without the cooler being drained.

Cyberpoet, you know your stuff. Keep up the good information!

BTW- Is the air-box line the one that exits near the exhaust collector that has the small cap in it.....by draining this, what will I benefit....and also, why does it fill with crud? ( I don't mean to threadjack, but this is good info!)

[tzortn]

Was the bike upright when you checked the oil? I changed my oil last week and yesterday I went to check the level since it has been running . When the bike was on the side stand I could not see any oil, but once the bike was upright there was the oil.

[SweetLou]

If you fill it, let it run for a bit, turn it off and recheck it, or even check it while it is runniny, your gona get a low reading. It needs to sit for a bit to get a good reading.

[The CyberPoet]

BTW- Is the air-box line the one that exits near the exhaust collector that has the small cap in it.....by draining this, what will I benefit....and also, why does it fill with crud? ( I don't mean to threadjack, but this is good info!)

Yes, the drain that has the cap (on the 98+ Kats) exits by the collector. The drain is there specifically to drain out fluid build-up, and should only be done with the engine off (the cap should always be in place when the engine is running, because the tube will otherwise act as a vacuum pick-up that enters the system past the air filter and thus doesn't get filtered).

As for why (reposted from a different thread to save typing):

It goes like this:

Every time your cylinder detonates, some of the fuel gets pushed against the walls (just a little tiny bit in most cases). As the piston sweeps up and down, it carries away that tiny bit and it falls with the oil down into the oil pan with the oil that carried it away.
Once there, it heats up and turns back into a fuel vapor again, which then rises to the top of the engine normally. To keep these vapors from building up to explosive quantities in the oil passages, the stock engine draws the vapors off the top of the valve covers back into the air box (through the vent tube between the valve covers and the airbox), to get recycled (burned off) my mixing with the inbound air going into the carbs. If too much fuel is ending up in the oil (such as a stuck carb float causing fuel to run into a cylinder when the bike is parked), the vapors will reliquify in the airbox (due to condensation from being cooled by the in-rushing air) instead of being drawn back into the carbs, and you end up with an airbox full of oily-fuel... One of the reasons the airbox has a drain tube (to let you drain out any build-up).

Under certain set-ups that eliminate the airbox (the pod-filter set-up mentioned by MD86), there is no provision to route the vent gases back into the intake for the bike; in those situations, you place a breather filter on that opening on the valve covers to keep debris from falling in, and hope that it will vent sufficient vapors that spontaneous combustion in the oil galley won't occur.

As oil breaks down (or is sheared by mechanical action or chemical break-down) and loses it's viscosity (even in the healthiest engines), the shortest lengths of carbon chains vaporize more readily than the rest of the oil -- these vapors then get sucked back into the airbox as well... and explain where the small amount of oil build-up can come from.

If you fill it, let it run for a bit, turn it off and recheck it, or even check it while it is runniny, your gona get a low reading. It needs to sit for a bit to get a good reading.

The run/shut-down/wait 1-3 minutes/read method is in the owner's manual... Reading it 15 minutes after shut down will definitely give you an artificially high reading.

Naturally, how well your oil flows plays into as well... well warmed oil (around 100 degrees C, aka 212 degrees F) acts like the higher of the two values on multiweight oil (i.e. - 40 if it's a 10w40) while around 40 degree C (102 degrees F) it's acts like the first number (10 weight oil). 10 weight will obviously drain back much faster than 40 weight...

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[KnightRider]

Wow. Thanks for my new Katana knowledge. I am DEFINATLY going to be checking that line tonite. I have an air filter as well....can't hurt to change it out while I'm fiddling with everything.

Thanks CyberPoet (I also read the other post regaurding why) my bad for not searching.

[SoloScott]

Naturally, how well your oil flows plays into as well... well warmed oil (around 100 degrees C, aka 212 degrees F) acts like the higher of the two values on multiweight oil (i.e. - 40 if it's a 10w40) while around 40 degree C (102 degrees F) it's acts like the first number (10 weight oil). 10 weight will obviously drain back much faster than 40 weight...

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

This brings up an oil-related question I've had for some time....
I understand the 2 numbers given for oil viscosity. For a 10w40, the oil behaves like a 10 weight at 40C and behaves like a 40 weight at 100C. This all means that throughout the temperature range, the viscosity is more constant than a plain 10 weight oil.

Pick any weight oil, such as 10; is there a way to figure out what weight oil will flow at 100C exactly as a 10 does at 40C? Is it possible to create an oil that does not increase its "flow-ability" from 40 to 100C? If so, then couldn't the perfect oil be created? One that flows to all engine parts at startup, but doesn't lose it's viscosity when running in the summer heat?

[The CyberPoet]

This brings up an oil-related question I've had for some time....
I understand the 2 numbers given for oil viscosity. For a 10w40, the oil behaves like a 10 weight at 40C and behaves like a 40 weight at 100C.

So far, so good.

This all means that throughout the temperature range, the viscosity is more constant than a plain 10 weight oil.

This is a misnomer in a sense, because of several factors (esp. in our case):

(A) A 40 weight at 100 C does not flow approximately the same as a 10 weight at 40 C. It is formulated this way so that oil moves through the engine quickly at start-up, when there is a lack of oil, and films better at higher temps, when the engine requires the most protection.

(B) The polymers that make the oil act as a 40 weight at 100C break down faster than the base hydrocarbon strands in the 10 weight oil, so as time goes by, the oil is apt to go 10w40, 10w35, 9w30, 9w25, 8w20, etc... Hopefully you'll change your oil before it drops too radically.

(C) Neither number describes what the oil does significantly above 100C, and unlike water-cooled cars (where the oil tends to run between 100 and 115C), oil-air cooled motorcycle engines often run well in excess of 130C. This is why looking at HTHS values for the oils we use is so critical (HTHS - high temp, high shear - is evaluted at 150 degree C under stress) -- and why I recommend using JASO-MA rated oils (because the HTHS requirement is set high enough to ensure the oil will do it's job in our types of operating environments).

Pick any weight oil, such as 10; is there a way to figure out what weight oil will flow at 100C exactly as a 10 does at 40C? Is it possible to create an oil that does not increase its "flow-ability" from 40 to 100C? If so, then couldn't the perfect oil be created? One that flows to all engine parts at startup, but doesn't lose it's viscosity when running in the summer heat?

In theory, anything is possible, but what is "best" is (for most vehicle engines) not the same as what you describe as "ideal". An oil could theoretically be created that would maintain the same pour-viscosity across the 40 to 100C range, but it's not really that important in the bigger picture (see item A, above).

Additionally, an oil's effective (filming) viscosity is ruined by many factors, from chemistry (sulfated ash content yields sulfuric acid in the presence of water, such as condensation; gasoline rips apart the oil's hydrocarbon chains), to mechanical shear (gear teeth meshing hard enough to literally rip the oil apart; ditto at the clutch plates and at the rings), to thermal failure (evaporation, exposure to flash temps, etc). How an oil goes about fighting these forms of failure is the primary difference between different oil formulations in the same weight, as far as I am concerned; better oils fight the breakdown methods better... And again, another reason that I so highly push the JASO-MA spec -- by definition, it has better qualities than against such breakdown than any spec set by the API (this is not to say an API-rated oil can't meet the JASO-MA ratings -- some do -- it's just more expensive to create the better formulations in the small batch sizes required for demand).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[stevnmd]

Re: oil change WTF?

Ive since put a qt of oil in there and when running does show full in the window. but what happened to the 1st 4qts. thats a lot of oil that nust "dissapeared" and i dont think my bike would just burn oil without a puff of blue smoke.

Umm, that's over filled. You do NOT want to see oil in that window while the bike's running. That window should show oil only when the engine is stopped and oil has drained back from the motor into the oil pan. Run engine to full temp, shut off motor, put bike upright on level ground, oil level should read about half way between the marks on the sight glass after a few minutes.

[jfr]

What oil would you guys recomend for a pre 98 600? I live in Az and it will be around 100 degrees for the next 5 months. Thanks jfr

[SlipKid]

Considering the high cost of oil nowadays, it's possible your oil was stolen while you weren't looking...