starter / starter clutch

[floxera]

I have a pre98 kat with '00 600 engine and starter.

The problem.
The bike starts up fine every mourning. Once the bike warms up if I shut it down it won't restart. The starter just can't turn the engine fast enough like the battery is dead.(it will bump start) After the bike cools down it will start back up no problem.

Even with a fresh charge on the battery I have the same problem.
I just replaced the starter and still have the same problem.


Help!

[The CyberPoet]

Re: starter / starter clutch

pre98 kat with '00 600 engine and starter.

The problem.

The bike starts up fine every mourning. Once the bike warms up if I shut it down it won't restart. The starter just can't turn the engine fast enough like the battery is dead.(it will bump start)
After the bike cools down it will start back up no problem.
Even with a fresh charge on the battery I have the same problem.
I just replaced the starter and still have the same problem.

A few questions:
(A) Did you retain the TPS and CDI from the '00 donor, or stick with the original ('pre-98) CDI?
(B) Is there is an advancer or advancer mod installed?
(C) How old is the battery? What's the battery voltage between the terminals with the key off/out?
(D) What is the battery voltage between the terminals with the bike running?
(D) If you PRIME the carbs for 10 seconds, does it still do it?

I suspect I'm going to have a hard time figuring this one out... If it conked out when hot, I'd say coils, but you're saying the starter isn't turning the engine quickly enough when hot -- but works fine cold.

Meandering thoughts:
Battery CCA down due to old/worn/aged battery, esp. if aftermarket replacement instead of Yausa.
Valve clearances so tight at full-hot that it can't over-come the compression levels.
Timing signal going off at hot -- bad pigtail connector or insulation getting too warm (wrong fuse size)...
OR
charging system not charging battery adequately when running (run down battery or cooking it off).

Hmmm... Leaning towards charging system/battery problems.
=-= The CyberPoet

[floxera]

A. Complete pre98 wiring harness/alternator/cdi and carbs
B. No and No
C. 1 year old. I'll have too test.
D. I'll test.
D. I'll try prime for a couple seconds, but I really don't think it's a fuel issue because it's pretty easy to bump start.

The valves should be fine. They've been adjusted twice in the last year. I guess the battery could be worn out. Most of my rides are 4 mile commutes in stopped and go traffic.

Is there an easy way to test if the charging system is working properly?

[The CyberPoet]

Is there an easy way to test if the charging system is working properly?

Yes. Tests C & D.

You can find more info here:
CyberPoet's "Motorcycle Electrical and Charging System diagnostics, troubleshooting, repairs" at MotorcycleAnchor.com

Basically, battery voltage between the battery terminals with battery charged should be greater than 12.6 volts and stable for a period of at least three hours (i.e. - if you charge it up, measure it at above 12.6 and then recheck in the morning wihtout having run the bike, the battery should still be at the same voltage). If it drops, or doesn't get to at least 12.6 volts to start with after charging, battery is toast.

While running, the voltage between the battery terminals should be 13.7 to 14.4 volts. If it's over 14.7 or under 13, the charging system is bad, probably at the voltage regulator (IC/Rectifier pack).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[floxera]

I finally was able to test the battery. I put a full charge on the battery. Then the battery sat disconnected for 2 days. The voltage was 12.3 disconnected. While the bike was running at idle the voltage dropped to 12. With the key ON but engine killed the voltage was 11.95 and dropping.

So I guess the charging system isn't working properly.

Is the voltage regulator (IC/rectifier) part of the wiring harness?

[The CyberPoet]

I finally was able to test the battery. I put a full charge on the battery. Then the battery sat disconnected for 2 days. The voltage was 12.3 disconnected. While the bike was running at idle the voltage dropped to 12. With the key ON but engine killed the voltage was 11.95 and dropping.

So I guess the charging system isn't working properly.

Is the voltage regulator (IC/rectifier) part of the wiring harness?

Well, it would seem that the battery is definitely toast (should have been 12.7+ disconnected and steady for at least two hours once off the charger).
As for the voltage dropping once connected, it could be either the charging system or a bad bit of insulation/bad connection. The good news is a new regulator assembly isn't as expensive as you might expect -- $99.48 at RonAyers (part number 32500-03F10 for a 98+ engine). But you need to do a few more tests while you're in there, such as checking the continuity of the alternator coils with the regulator assembly off to make sure the alternator itself isn't bad for some reason.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[floxera]

As for the voltage dropping once connected, it could be either the charging system or a bad bit of insulation/bad connection. The good news is a new regulator assembly isn't as expensive as you might expect -- $99.48 at RonAyers (part number 32500-03F10 for a 98+ engine). But you need to do a few more tests while you're in there, such as checking the continuity of the alternator coils with the regulator assembly off to make sure the alternator itself isn't bad for some reason.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

I did some more tinkering. I recharged the battery to 14 volts. Let the battery sit for a couple hours the volts dropped to 13 volts. Started up the bike the volts fell to 12.8, but the volts held steady while the bike was running. Turn the bike off and restart the volts dropped to 12.6, but the volts held steady again at idle. Every time I use the starter the volts drop. As you said before the battery is toast it discharges really quick, but is it possible the charging system is still OK?

Either way I guess the next step is get a new battery then check the charging system again.

[The CyberPoet]

I recharged the battery to 14 volts. Let the battery sit for a couple hours the volts dropped to 13 volts.

Either way I guess the next step is get a new battery then check the charging system again.

Battery definitely needs to be replaced before you test any further -- it's toast. And that may be the end of your issues

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[ThAzKat]

the battery is toast and another way of testing that fact is a voltage drop test. put the leads of the multimeter on the battery, put it on volts dc, turn the bike on, you should still have battery voltage at 12.5 +, crank the engine if voltage drops below 9.6 then the battery is definitely bad. you don't have a charging issue, the short commutes can be part of the problem, they don't give the alternator enough time to recharge the battery. try taking longer routes home to help charge the battery.