Desperate need of help-Electrical

[snood63]

Hey all.

Beyond frustrated here.

Son's 96 600 stopped running last fall right before put up time. I tinkered with it but couldn't get it to start or run. I'm not an electrical genius so it's not beyond the realm of possibilities that I've missed the obvious.

Heres the detail. Bike was started, ran for a few minutes then stalled. At first when it was turned over afterwards it would behave as if it wanted to start and gradually got to the point where it made no effort. There was a very faint spark at first but as of now I can't get one. Coils have been tested. Spark generator does have resistance but I cannot get a reading on that because my cheap ass ohm meter has no setting for testing it. I was going to swap out ignitors with my 93 but they are not compatable.

It does turns over very strong.

Ideas??

[snood63]

Is there a way to test Ignitor?

[arsenic]

Actually a special tool is needed for that. It's like $850 for the tool. Called the digital ignitor checker. You'r local suzuki daler should be equipped with one.

[snood63]

Ok, went out and bought a much better multi-meter. The book says to check signal generator at the connector. I did.

What has me confused is that it says at the connector it contains a yellow and black/blue wire. This is true on one side. The other side has a yellow and blue wire. When I test the yellow and blue I get a reading of 165. When I test the black/blue and yellow ( as per what the book says) I get no reading. If I'm understanding this right then it indicates to me that the signal generator is indeed the problem.

I do not have a diagram for a 95 so I am working off of a 89-93 diagram and from what I can tell the only blue wire ( as per this diagram) is linked to the neutral switch. Why would I have a blue wire connecting to the signal generator?

[snood63]

Ok, went out and bought a much better multi-meter. The book says to check signal generator at the connector. I did.

What has me confused is that it says at the connector it contains a yellow and black/blue wire. This is true on one side. The other side has a yellow and blue wire. When I test the yellow and blue I get a reading of 165. When I test the black/blue and yellow ( as per what the book says) I get no reading. If I'm understanding this right then it indicates to me that the signal generator is indeed the problem.

I do not have a diagram for a 95 so I am working off of a 89-93 diagram and from what I can tell the only blue wire ( as per this diagram) is linked to the neutral switch. Why would I have a blue wire connecting to the signal generator?

Ok, nevermind. The book says to look for the connector with the yellow and black/blue wire so I read that as telling me that I want to check that side when the other side has a blue and yellow wire. I just checked both sides on my 93 (which is running) and got the same readings. 165 on the yellow and blue side, zilch on the yellow and black/blue side.

I'm lost here. Have checked several connections, grounds and what not. I have read other posts on this. One guy said he got spark again by checking connections. Is there anyone that can clue me in on a sensible progression because this random checking of shit is driving me nuts. Please forgive my ignorance. I'm learning.

[snood63]

Anyone know where I can get a wiring diagram for a 96 600 ?

[HS2020]

look on www.ronayers.com there may be one on there. I have a manual but it is at home and I am at work. Send special K a pm. I know he is broken right now but he may still be able to help you.

[The CyberPoet]

The full wiring diagram is in the factory service manual, and may be in some of the aftermarket manuals. You can find the 98+ wiring diagram here: http://771doug.netfirms.com/electrical2.html. Unfortunately, I don't know where to send you to find the 90 - 96 diagram (at least on the web).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[snood63]

I have the Clymer manual for 1988-1996 katana 600. The wiring diagrams in the back stop at 1993. I'm not sure how much of a difference there would be but I have already picked up on 2 differences. The wiring color coding to the signal generator is more in line with the 98+ diagram that Cyber linked me to and the connections to the CDI differ from my 93.

I noticed on EBay that people are listing CDIs as being compatable 88-96. Just a heads up, they aren't.

[snood63]

As I previously admitted earlier. I am ignorant. I am however able to figure things out given time.

Heres the deal at present. Coils test out. Signal generator tests out. I have continuity through all wires that I know to check as well as connections.

Here's the question. Am I correct in assuming that the power to the ignition system is generated at the signal generator? If I am seeing this right it then enters the CDI to which it then flows to the coils.
So, if I am accurate and all things pass then I am pretty much down to the CDI as being the problem. Am I correct?


I did call the local Suzuki and was informed that there was not a test for the CDI and that you just have to figure it out via a process of elimination. I find this somewhat unsettling because they then quoted me a price of over 400 for a new one.

Any imput would be apprciated. TY

[The CyberPoet]

...I did call the local Suzuki and was informed that there was not a test for the CDI and that you just have to figure it out via a process of elimination. I find this somewhat unsettling because they then quoted me a price of over 400 for a new one.

It's rarely the CDI, as it only goes bad from two circumstance normally:
A really hard crash or drop (say a 5 foot drop onto concrete), sufficient to break the epoxy the circuitry is set into (and the circuitry with it), or a very strong static discharge (zapping the processors).

How to test a CDI:
Beg, borrow, steal a known good CDI and swap it out. If the problem is resolved, track down a good CDI off eBay or from SpecialK. You may be able to get him to loan you one for testing as well.

Q: Do you know the battery to be good & healthy? The fact that you initially had a weak spark to begin with leads me to conceive that originally you had a weak or borderline battery, and that either old fuel/blocked carb passages/fouled plugs actually lies behind the fact that it didn't want to start initially. Now the battery is properly dead, and the bike doesn't want to run... At least I suspect that's what's happening. If so, drain the fuel, clean the carbs, replace the battery and try it again.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[snood63]

...I did call the local Suzuki and was informed that there was not a test for the CDI and that you just have to figure it out via a process of elimination. I find this somewhat unsettling because they then quoted me a price of over 400 for a new one.

It's rarely the CDI, as it only goes bad from two circumstance normally:
A really hard crash or drop (say a 5 foot drop onto concrete), sufficient to break the epoxy the circuitry is set into (and the circuitry with it), or a very strong static discharge (zapping the processors).

How to test a CDI:
Beg, borrow, steal a known good CDI and swap it out. If the problem is resolved, track down a good CDI off eBay or from SpecialK. You may be able to get him to loan you one for testing as well.

Q: Do you know the battery to be good & healthy? The fact that you initially had a weak spark to begin with leads me to conceive that originally you had a weak or borderline battery, and that either old fuel/blocked carb passages/fouled plugs actually lies behind the fact that it didn't want to start initially. Now the battery is properly dead, and the bike doesn't want to run... At least I suspect that's what's happening. If so, drain the fuel, clean the carbs, replace the battery and try it again.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

Ty for your input

Just went outside and checked the battery again. 12.7 v

This is not an after storage problem. It happened last fall before we put it up. I have nonetheless drained and changed the full to no avail. Starter fluid won't even get it to cough. I am certain it is a spark issue. I have none. Plugs are in good shape as a matter of fact they only have about 1k on them.

I am not sure where I could get another CDI to swap. As I stated in a previous post my 93 won't hook up and the only other Kat I have access to is a 93 as well. I am just about at the point of lubing up the backside and just taking it in but I'd really like to elimanate as much as possible before I do.

Thanks again.

[The CyberPoet]

Just went outside and checked the battery again. 12.7 v

This is not an after storage problem. It happened last fall before we put it up. I have nonetheless drained and changed the full to no avail. Starter fluid won't even get it to cough. I am certain it is a spark issue. I have none. Plugs are in good shape as a matter of fact they only have about 1k on them. .

Change the plugs again. Plugs can foul in five minutes of choke. 1000 miles on plugs, if the carbs are running slightly rich/lean can foul them fiercely. Also check spark gap and the plug wires.

Q: you're not getting spark on any of the four plugs, right?

Q: Do the carbs have a TPS unit (sits on the right side of the 4-carb assembly, has a three-wire pigtail coming off it)? I thought they were first implimented in '98, but if your wiring diagram has more in common with the 98+ than the '93, it may well be a transplant engine/cdi/wiring loom. If you know the previous owner, contact him/her and ask as well.

I am not sure where I could get another CDI to swap. As I stated in a previous post my 93 won't hook up and the only other Kat I have access to is a 93 as well. I am just about at the point of lubing up the backside and just taking it in but I'd really like to elimanate as much as possible before I do.

Contact SpecialK to see if he has a known-good CDI you can borrow or buy cheap. Then start scanning eBay if he doesn't.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[paperairplane]

Hello, plug wires is my first guess. Was sparking now not sparking, most other components working within spec....

Go to local auto store, get a nice long piece of 8mm plug wire and see what happens... if you get a spark, bingo - fixed for $8

[snood63]

Ok, I'm baffled and a little concerned now. I GOT SPARK!!! Don't know what I did but it's there now. I'm going to go ahead and get new wires and plugs for it before I start to put it all together. Seems like the sensible thing to do. Perhaps tomorrow I will get it running.

I sure hope this is the end of it. The boy leaves for the Navy in 4 months and he and I have a lot of riding to do before he goes.

Thanks for the input and I'll let ya know if I have succeeded.