HELP HELP --93 Kat 600; Electrical problem (maybe) ?!?!

[benchfalco]

Bike hasn't been running since last sept. BUT

After advice from you guys!!!; cleaning up some ground connections, and other electrical componenents. I FINALLY have spark!!
BUT BUT BUT she still won't run. I have a blue spark when I groung the plugs to the frame, when I did this before I had no spark --- how aggressive or "fat" should this spark be? (My spark kinda looks slightly larger than the spark you get from those "button" type electric bbq ignitors.)

I tried new coils and a new CDI and the spark is the same "size". So I was wondering if ignition timing could be a possibility, or maybe a bad pickup coil in the ignition rotor housing....? Maye the problem isn't electrical at all.......

The gasoline in the tank is at least 7 months old. But I added fuel stabilizer sometime around christmas....when the fuel was 4 months old.
Could the problem simply be old gasoline? The fuel is flowing from the tank into the carbs. so no clogs. ----- Next chance I get to work on the beast I will replace the old fuel with new. -----

I have tried everything I can think of, now I need some help on some possible problems. Any advice to get an engine running where everything seems to be working properly?

Should I try an ether spray or something like that into the carbs, to get this thing to fire!!!??

ANYTHING would be a help and greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks everyone!!!!




Here's my old post regarding the same issue, which might help give some insight on solving the problem:

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http://www.katriders.com/forums/view...611&highlight=

93 gsx600F katana

Last summer when pulling away from stops, my bike underperformed until it reached the higher revs. --- I was told this is due to a battery-dependant ignition system. Meaning, unless the bike has a good quality battery to provide proper spark during the low revs it will not perform well until it reaches the higher revs, when the alternator (generator) starts creating enough energy, recharging the battery, to provide proper spark. ----

The scenario: One day while riding normally, my bike suddenly lost power. It didn't stall, but it felt as if only firing on 3 cyls. for example. Then after a matter of seconds the problem corrected itself and I rode the short trip home. After parking the bike for the night, I went out the next day, only to sadly discover that my baby had no heartbeat. It just wouldn't start.....no spark

I was surprised at this since this was just a day or two after I got back from a motorcycle trip with a buddy where we drove a couple thousand km, and the bike never acted up once.

...so, I killed the battery running the starter. Then I charged the battery. And tested the electrical system. Everything was within the specified ranges. Then after finding out about the battery-dependant ignition deal, I figure it's a bad battery. BUT, after installing a new battery I still had no spark.

I tested for spark by grounding a plug against the frame. I tested both coils and all four plugs and wires, but NEITHER coil had any spark (each coil tested within range of specified resistances, so figure they're still good). As well, it seems highly unlikely that both ignition coils should fail at the exact same time. but neither is creating spark.

It's definatley electrical. The plugs are new, and the bike was running perfectly prior to this. Other than the chronic hesitate-from-a-standing-start problem.
__________________________________________________ __________

Okay, so now that the electrical problem *seems* to be repaird (I have spark -- do I have enough?) what else could the problem be?

Thanks again everyone!!

[The CyberPoet]

Your spark sounds healthy, and whoever told you to get new CDI, etc. should probably be shot...

Drain all the gas in the tank. Burn it safely (least environmentally damaging way of disposing of it), or find somewhere that will take it (an disliked co-worker's gas tank is always a good place)

Remove the carbs. Empty them. Clean them. Thoroughly. Clean them again. Check the needles for corrosion, build up and wear (it will be obvious if you find it) -- if found, get a jetkit and trash the old ones, or find someone selling the stock needles after they installed a jetkit (like me). Clean all the tiny passages by running a nylon bristle through them and spraying carb cleaner liberally. If any orange paste is found, clean it out well and change the inline fuel filter as well and treat the tank for rust (if you don't have an inline fuel filter, get one!).

Even if you don't find orange paste in the carbs, check tank for rust. If rust is found, use this to guide you:
CyberPoet's "How to deal with rust in your motorcycle gas tank" at motorcycleanchor.com

Put the carbs back on, leave the airbox & tank off. Fill the fuel line hose to the carbs with a ketchup bottle with fresh gasoline until the float bowls are full.

Now try to start it with some choke. It should spring to life. If not, get back to us...

PS - if you're plugs aren't new, replace them.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[Yellow]

Everything Cyber said... +you could try with some ether too. That got mine starting when everything else failed (it might have been old gas that was my problem since it didn't want to catch at all).

[benchfalco]

Inline Fuel Filter, Carbs...

1) I don't have an inline fuel filter. The only protection my carbs have is the fine mesh screen that makes up a portion of the fuel petcock (the part that takes gasoline from different heights as you switch from "on" to "reserve").
Since I have two fuel lines (to carb 1,3, other to 3,4) running from my fuel switch I'll need two filters right? I'll ask my dealer about this tonight....

2) I have a new carb set up I'm going to install, with a stage 3 jet kit, I purchased from ebay. I have never taken these carbs apart to clean or adjust. I have the sellers "assurance" that the carb was clean and well cared for...blah blah.....so I was just going to slap it on, and see how well it worked, then go through all the fine tuning adjustments....bad idea?
Should I tak'em apart, clean'em and install new float seals...or just cross my fingers? I'm just thinking if they're not broken then why bother messing with them?


FIRST I have to deal with rust in my tank (thanks for the advice) before installing the new carb set up. But BEFORE THAT I have to get this bloody thing running!!! Maybe that's my real problem....rust particles clogging the old carb.
I know that when I bought te bike the #4 carb was spewing fuel into my airbox, then I took them all apart, cleaned them out and she ran like spit. Sweet! ... but that was then....

THREE CHEERS TO THE CYBERPOET!!!
I bow to thee

[benchfalco]

whoever told you to get new CDI should probably be shot

Actually, I got the CDI (by choice of my own--do I shoot myself ) from Ebay, as well as 2 ignition coils, and an entire wiring harness with all the relays etc. for under a hundred....so now I've got all kinds of spare electrics (all from a '92). But, as things would turn out it seems that I never needed any of them.........yet

On the plus side, I was able to help some peeps out with info from these parts, alos they helped me with diagnosing the "real" problem my bike was having.

Anybody have any ideas of fun stuff I can do with extra ignition coils relays etc? I'm thinking bike mods.....

[ThAzKat]

+1 to what Cyber and Yellow said!

With the coils, FLAME THROWERS OUT THE PIPES

[benchfalco]

I was trying to figure ways to rig up some flame throwers too.....but I'm wondering what the best method would be.

I have a few posts on the suzuki bikes forum regarding flame throwers....check it out

http://www.suzuki-bikes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4404&highlight=flame

[ThAzKat]

there is a propane set up the hot rodders use, it is a kit you can buy.

The old school way is a spark plug about 2" from the tip of the can and run the bike rich. If you are in an area that does emission's they won't allow it. very dangerous!! (WARNING)

[The CyberPoet]

Re: Inline Fuel Filter, Carbs...

1) I don't have an inline fuel filter. The only protection my carbs have is the fine mesh screen that makes up a portion of the fuel petcock (the part that takes gasoline from different heights as you switch from "on" to "reserve").
Since I have two fuel lines (to carb 1,3, other to 3,4) running from my fuel switch I'll need two filters right? I'll ask my dealer about this tonight....

Yes, you'll need dual fuel filters. If you have rust (which you implied you did), find filters that have paper elements and a magnet in them; traditional screen filters are not fine enough to stop rust.

KNOW THIS: The fuel path in the Kat does not use a pump, so the fuel hoses must route downhill the whole way -- including through the filters -- to avoid fuel starvation. Make sure the fuel filters are installed in such a way that the exit is lower than the entrance when installed; this may mean mounting them so the bottom tip is virtually at the inlet to the carbs.

2) I have a new carb set up I'm going to install, with a stage 3 jet kit, I purchased from ebay. I have never taken these carbs apart to clean or adjust. I have the sellers "assurance" that the carb was clean and well cared for...blah blah.....so I was just going to slap it on, and see how well it worked, then go through all the fine tuning adjustments....bad idea?
Should I tak'em apart, clean'em and install new float seals...or just cross my fingers? I'm just thinking if they're not broken then why bother messing with them?

Unless you know the seller personally, don't trust them to be honest. Take them apart and at least look them over. Sometimes floats get stuck in transit and it's not the fault of the seller.
For a stage 3 kit, you will have to have an aftermarket exhaust header AND either a K&N filter with larger diameter airbox opening or pod air-filters that replace the airbox. Otherwise the stage 3 will run way to rich for the bike and you'll have all sorts of problems.

FIRST I have to deal with rust in my tank (thanks for the advice) before installing the new carb set up. But BEFORE THAT I have to get this bloody thing running!!! Maybe that's my real problem....rust particles clogging the old carb.
I know that when I bought te bike the #4 carb was spewing fuel into my airbox, then I took them all apart, cleaned them out and she ran like spit. Sweet! ... but that was then....

Order the POR-15 kit for the tank if you have rust in it (get the $32 one if there's just rust; the $45 one if there is already a Kreme or RedKoat liner in it that's broken down), and get that project started; clean the carbs and get the bike to run without the tank while you are waiting for the POR-15 kit to do it's job (which is a five to eight day process, but also an one-in-a-lifetime thing).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[benchfalco]

That is some sweet advice!!

I definately want to reseal the tank. I'm pretty sure that there's just rust and no other sealer already installed. and the rust looks pretty minor, but I haven't really gotten in there yet. I had no idea that the process would take 5-8 days.....but I would rather do a perfect job once, rather than a half-assed one again and again.

I've got a pair of pod k&Ns (came with the carb) that look brand new, and a full aftermarket exhaust (vance hines supersport)....which could sure use replacing....

Is it true that one should change the float seals every or every other time the float-bowls are removed from the carbs?

Thanks for the tip about the fuel filters. Sometimes stuff like that isn't obvious to everyone......

Thanks for sharing the wealth



-B

[The CyberPoet]

I've got a pair of pod k&Ns (came with the carb) that look brand new,

Clean and reoil them before use.

and a full aftermarket exhaust (vance hines supersport)....which could sure use replacing....

If it's rusted, send it out to be jet-coated (powdercoated with aluminum-ceramic mixture). The place that does it will sand blast all the rust away (no work on your end!) and they'll come back in awesome shape, run cooler on their exteriors, and the exhaust will flow faster for doing it.

Is it true that one should change the float seals every or every other time the float-bowls are removed from the carbs?

Probably, but I never have... I'm a slacker in that sense. The O-rings on the other hand, those I change because they're really prone to breakdown.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet