Help - Old Katana, lots of problems.

[Genkenx2]

Hi,

I've been trying to get registered on this site for a little over a month now but only now finally got an activation e-mail (after three seperate registration attempts).

Anyways, I bought a 1989 Katana 600 about a month ago for $900. It has 38,500 miles.

I thought it was a good deal, and I hope it still is because I really like the bike.

The problems I had noticed when I bought it were two things:

#1 the bike has a rattle in the engine.. the rattle gets faster as the RPMs go up, but it is present at all RPMs. I don't know if this is the Cam Chain Tensioner, if it's the spring, or what. Any help appreciated.

#2 The major problem I see with the bike. When I start up the bike I have to choke it a bit to get it going.. once it warms up for about 10 mins or so the idle hovers at a steady 1,000-1,200 RPMs (good enough for me).. but when the bike gets really warmed up... about 15 minutes of riding or so.. the idle starts to jump up. It will start by just hanging at around 3,000 then it will gradually reduce back down to 1,200 after 3-7 seconds... but after a while it will no longer reduce down and will stay at a consistent 3,200 RPMs when at idle.

I don't believe it is the choke cable because I checked choke connection to the bike and it seems to be fully depressed when the choke cable is off.. it will pull out when I turn on the choke, so I think it's fine?

I need to get this issue fixed because I'm afraid of what it is. I don't want to die on this thing lol.

#3 Another thing is after I changed the oil on my bike it has started to have issues starting. The starter works fine and it sounds like it is almost firing, but it just won't fire and start running. This happened to me three times, the first two times I got it running somehow (I didn't do anything special it just worked) but the last time I tried a few days ago I couldn't get it started, and I haven't touched the bike since.

Does this sound like the spark plugs?

#4 The chain is slapping a bit.. it seems to have a over an inch of slack. I think I can adjust this pretty simply right? Only thing I'm afraid of is if the chain is still good.. the bike does have 38,500 miles on it. I took a measure between 21 links like it said in the manual and it was at about 12.6 inches which the book says is the wear limit. I don't know if I have the know-how to replace a drive chain.

#5 Gas in my oil. I learned that since I bought the bike I have accidentally had the Petcock in the Prime position (it is not labeled). I put 80 miles on the bike like this. I found the correct position on this site and now it is pointing down. I changed the oil, and I still smell gas in my crankcase but that might be left over residue. I have not noticed my oil level rising really high like it was before (before it was at the fill line while on the side stand. i don't know if that is what was causing the gas in oil, but does that sound like a reasonable conclusion to draw, or should I look for something else?

#6 Oil leaking. Since I bought the bike, shortly after I got it, I noticed some oil collecting over at the front lower part of the engine where there are two Oil Pump tubes heading into the oil cooler.. the oil seems to be small droplets that drop from those bolt ... things... and onto the exhaust pipe.

After I changed the oil and filter and I noticed it leaks more now.. however, I think that's because the oil filter isn't on tight enough. Do I have to now remove the oil filter to get it tighter? If I take it off without draining oil, will 4 quarts of oil come spilling out of my filter? Should I get a new filter again?



I'm on a budget, so all of these fixes I would like to be able to do on my own... so let me know if this is possible.


Also... I live on the Northside of Chicago, if there are any Kat guys out on this forum that might be willing to look at it for me and give me a better diagnosis then what I can explain here, I'd be very very grateful for the asssitance.

I know this is alot for a first post of mine.. but I've been reading these forums since I got the bike, I've tried using the search function but it's hard to diagnose properly without being able to give my personal situation and recieve direct feedback.

[Black_peter]

Re: Help - Old Katana, lots of problems.

Anyways, I bought a 1989 Katana 600 about a month ago for $900. It has 38,500 miles.
I thought it was a good deal, and I hope it still is because I really like the bike.

Well lets hope so!

#1 the bike has a rattle in the engine..

No change from the second it starts to once it is warmed up?
Then most likely the cam chain thing..

#2 The major problem I see with the bike.

Lets see, 18 year old bike? I'm thinking you need a good carb cleaning.
Lot and lots of info on that here!

#3 Another thing is after I changed the oil on my bike it has started to have issues starting.

We need more info. What oil, what did you do? Could be coincidence.
With jacked up carbs you can foul the plugs really easy..

#4 The chain is slapping a bit..

If you are on a budget now is the time to get the know how!
Go here: www.motorcycleanchor.com Cyberpoet has drawings showing the right way to check your chain for wear. Don't fool around with a worn chain!! A snapped chain can take you foot, swing arm part, engine part with it! Plus send you right in the weeds!

#5 Gas in my oil. I learned that since I bought the bike I have accidentally had the Petcock in the Prime position (it is not labeled).

Now you know! Changing the oil was the right choice.

#6 Oil leaking.

$6 parts, hardest thing is taking off the fairings. Actually changing them is 30 minutes. I'm 99% sure it is the crush washers in those fittings. Best thing is to clean the engine super well to look for leaks.

After I changed the oil and filter and I noticed it leaks more now.. however, I think that's because the oil filter isn't on tight enough.

You should be able to snugg the filter tighter. I'm wondering if those fittings are just loose and you bumped them changing the filter?

If you made it through the oil change with out mishap you can handle the rest of your list IMO..

Chain first, new plugs next, fix the oil leak third. Clean the carbs..
Do a search here, Cyber poet and I posted some lengthy lists of items to check and things to do with a new old Kat.

Good luck,

[Genkenx2]

Hey,

something I forgot...

When I tried to adjust the idle (when I had the bike running) by turning the idle adjust screw, the screw would do absolutely nothing. When I followed the screw, it looks to be attached to the carbs.

What about cleaning the carbs is going to fix my high idle? I just am wondering if it's possible to narrow down the reasons for the high idle so that I can a better idea.

Thanks so much!

[Black_peter]

Dirty carbs can cause everything from poor cable reception to bloating..

That knob connects to a flex cable and does indeed connect to a screw that pushes on the throttle link. It's possible the flex is broken or the screw was so far out it's not touching..

[Genkenx2]

An update...

I've been tearing everything apart to try and get to the bike (in order to change spark plugs and everything).

I noticed that one of my rubber tubes on the Air Cleaner that connects to the Carbs is old, hard, cracked, has holes in it and looks like it was attempted to be repaired with some kind of epoxy.

Item #2 on

http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/showschematic.asp?dept_id=994741

I am going to replace this obviously because I don't want air coming from outside the filter. I was just wondering if this can contribute to any of the problems that I have, or if it is just another dumb thing that needs to be replaced before it has the chance to cause harm?

Also.. right now I have all of the fairings removed from the bike, the gas tank removed and the air filter unit taken off. While this is all taken apart, is there anything I should look for or check or do while I got everything apart? I don't plan on removing the carburetors right now, I imagine I'll assemble the bike and ride it more before I go to cleaning them- but is there anything I can check while the carbs are still on the bike to troubleshoot any of my issues?


Thanks!

[Black_peter]

Well you can spray a bunch of carb cleaner into all those holes (large and small). Cover the carbs up good with plastic and wash good behind the bikes ears
The cleaner your bike is the better you can work on it.

I think that leaking tube was a good find. I would attempt a repair with tape or something while looking for either a whole air box assembly or the set of rubber parts. If one got dry and hard the others can't be too far behind. Leaks there will definitely cause misbehavior in the carbs.

[Black_peter]

why.. here is one now!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1994-SUZUKI-KATANA-GSX-600-AIRBOX_W0QQitemZ320109904203QQihZ011QQcategoryZ35597QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Genkenx2]

Where exactly am I supposed to spray the carb cleaner again, I'm not sure which holes?

What kind of tape should I use to patch up the current tube? I'm going to see if I can get a single replacement or order one, all of the other tubes appear to be in great condition- the rubber is soft and solid, it's only this one that looks like it fucked up and some point and someone else tried to repair it (possibly a long time ago).
Could this cause my high idle by any chance at all?

This is my second bike I've ever owned and the first one I have ever open up to service, so I'm learning as I go along here.

Also, would adding techron, synching my carbs, or anything else like that fix my high idle issue? Or does my description not sound like those particular issues?

By the way, Black_peter, I REALLY appreciate you responding to my topic to help me out, you're the only person so far that has bothered to try and help me sort out my mess, and I really really appreciate your patience with me as I learn all of this .

[Black_peter]

weird that you have only one stiff tube..
But I'll trust you and you do what is best!

I'm thinking you could wrap it in electrical tape it is thin and good quality tape kind of seals to itself when stretched (to create a water proof seal)

yeah having a leaky tube will goof things up.
Spray carb cleaner every where you can get to.
With the air box off that is. There is a large hole (the main inlet) and then several small ones (ports) rev the engine while spraying (if you can) but since you are not tearing the carbs down you are hoping to douse the whole mess as much as possible in the hope you get the problem areas.

Techron (or seafoam) are like dusting.. It will get the light or new dirt but old caked on mess requires a sponge and soap.. (disassembly and cleaning)

Oh and hey, your welcome.. anytime!

[chinto]

I think BP, just about summed up most of your concerns, which is probably why no one else has piped in. As for cleaning the carbs, In my opinion I wouldn't bother with the spray cleaner. It will probably end up being an added expense as you will probably end up doing the following anyway (I haven't had much success with spray cleaners). Your best bet is to either tear into the carbs to clean them yourself or hand them over to someone who knows what they are doing. If you decide to take on the task yourself, be sure to do your research. There is a lot of carb info on this site.

[Black_peter]

I think BP, just about summed up most of your concerns, which is probably why no one else has piped in.

That doesn't prevent some people from chiming in though!

As for cleaning the carbs, In my opinion I wouldn't bother with the spray cleaner. It will probably end up being an added expense...

While I see what you mean, I have had carbs still need some spray after disassembly/cleaning. At this point the "added expense" is just a few dollars. While it does take some confidence and a bit of skill to tear the carbs apart.
It isn't rocket science but it isn't the same as changing oil. Not to mention the parts. Rounding up all the parts without spending a chunk of change can be tricky.