Can't get it moving. Was:How do you drain the fuel tank?

[Damian]

Well, I have searched until I can't search any more. It must be simple because no one ever gives details, they just say, "..next, drain the tank, then..." The shop manual doesn't even give directions. Anyway, I have a pre and need to drain the fuel. What's the best way to do it?

That's my main question, but if you're feeling generous, please read on...

I got the bike a few weeks ago and have had some common symptoms that indicate the carbs need to be cleaned, synced, valves adjusted, etc. (but nothing major) I've been buying parts and tools a little at a time.

Today I went to start it after work and had a harder time than usual keeping it lit after I weened it off the choke. After about 15 minutes of fighting it and adjusting the idle I started to get concerned. I killed it and checked the oil level, it was higher than it should have been. OK, gas is getting in the oil.

My wife picked me up, I got my truck and trucked it home. I was thinking maybe fouled plug, some junk in the carbs loosened up and clogged something else... So I wanted to drain my FULL tank of gas to get under there and look at the plugs and troubleshoot. While searching for how to drain the fuel, I found out that the airbox drain is supposed to be folded up, not gaping and sucking sand into the engine like mine has been.

So now my plan is to check for fouled plugs, clean the carbs (because I KNOW they're dirty since I've been riding with the airbox drain open), and change the oil. Is it likely there is damage to the cylinder walls or rings from sucking unfiltered air (dear God, tell me no)?

Am I on track with what I'm trying to do to fix it? Suggestions?

[DoubleD]

To answer the original question, you don't need to drain the tank to remove it. So long as the petcock is on 'ON' or 'RES' fuel will not flow when you disconnect the lines. AFA the rest - don't know but someone here will.

[Black_peter]

Re: How do you drain the fuel tank?

What's the best way to do it?

Remove the petcock.. Actually a really good idea as that is where your fuel filter is too. Just be careful of the gasket.

So now my plan is to check for fouled plugs, clean the carbs (because I KNOW they're dirty since I've been riding with the airbox drain open), and change the oil. Is it likely there is damage to the cylinder walls or rings from sucking unfiltered air (dear God, tell me no)?

Am I on track with what I'm trying to do to fix it? Suggestions?

OK Tex, That drain is not likely to suck up enough crap to damage the engine. As CnC says, no need to drain the tank. In fact to drain the tank you remove it. You will get some gas spillage from the tubes but just a few table spoons (thought it will seem like way more).
Note: Set the tank down on cardboard and be gentle.
You don't want to foul up anything under the tank and the fuel level sender can go out of whack with rough treatment. Try to keep the tank level if it is really full, as any tipping could cause the gas to leak out.

Next. I'm guessing if you have gas in the oil then you have a stuck float. Stuck floats will foul plugs but fouled plugs will not get oil in the gas.
Note: The damage can come from running the engine with gas in your oil.

A good cleaning is probably in order based on age. It is a long job to do right, try to get the parts needed before opening them up. stuff can go missing or fall apart then you are kinda stuck.. Special K has a write up along with part numbers. I strongly suggest that you disassemble/clean /reassemble all in one shot. I think you will find like most of these jobs the first one take 30 minutes the 4th one 30 sec..

Valve adjust, Carb Sych and FA adjustment following the rebuild and you are ready for summer.. Didn't Y'all know it's summer in Texas!?!?!

[Damian]

Thank you both so much! I was going to drain it at the petcock, but I saw your post over here, Peter and figured there was some preferred method using that drain nipple.

Thanks again!

[Damian]

OK, I drained the tank and removed it. In case there's another poor sap searching for specifics on how to drain it, I just pulled the fuel lines from the carbs and put the carb-end into a gas tank (the red, portable kind) and switched the petcock to prime. It was slow and I had to switch back to ON to go put the gas in my truck twice (it's a 2 gallon can, that Kat's tank was FULL).

I took the carbs out and started breaking them down one at a time. They were all super clean, they have obviously been recently rebuilt. The o rings are great. However, the diaphragm was not seated correctly on carb #1, carb #2 had no washer on the jet needle, and the pilot screws were all over the place. Some pilot screws were about 1 turn out, some were about 2.5, etc. I made a washer that should work until I get a real one, I seated the diaphragm in carb #1, and set the pilot screws to about 1.5 turns out. I inspected everything and put them back together. I also drained the oil.

I ordered the carb vacuum gauges from JC Whitney so I can synch the carbs when they get here.

I did find a carb with some oil-looking crap in it, maybe some of the oil got sucked into the airbox. I'm going to clean that and replace the air filter tomorrow.

I'm also going to check out the plugs tomorrow. Only 2 of the 4 plugs I ordered from BikeBandit got here on Friday (along with the previously mentioned air filter), so I'm waiting on the other 2 before I can swap them.

[Black_peter]

Good work,
The o-rings and washers are very important on those pilot screws.. So naturally they get lost!

I didn't know you didn't have a synco tool, you could have borrowed mine! Plugs are actually easy to get locally. TJ's a dirt bike shop in Austin always has them and not just for me.. Cyclegear too..

[Damian]

I'll have to try CycleGear. I haven't been in there yet. I just assumed that nobody would have the plugs and that they'd be cheaper online anyway.

I got the carbs back on and took the plugs out to inspect them. They look like they could be replaced, but the wear seems really normal.

I went to take out the #4 plug and moved the wire so I could grab the boot...and the wire came apart in a puff of blue-green dust I barely touched the wire. No spark to the #4 cylinder is now my best guess for what the problem was/is.

Also, the two ignition coils (I think that's what they're called) are different from each other. I'm guessing this is wrong. I can't tell from the shop manual, I'm going to check the fiche.

I have to get a proper spark plug socket for this bike. I used the one that apparently comes as part of the toolkit and it was agony.

[Court93kat]

The two coils looking different shouldn't be too much of an issue. The wire pulling out of the boot sure is though. You can fix that for free though. Just unscrew the plastic boots from the spark plug wires, cut about 1/4" from the wire and screw the boots back in. That will give you a good, clean, fresh connection between the wire and the boots.

Yes, finding an 18mm THIN walled socket for the plugs can be a bit of a search. I bought a couple before I got one that actually fits.

I agree with Black Peter on the stuck float putting gas in the oil. But since you have already had them apart, you may have fixed it already.

[Black_peter]

Hey Greg!
You thawing out up there?

I find my craftsman deep socket (part of the 200+ piece set nothing fancy) works fine.
I don't think our plugs are that uncommon. TJ's is a small dirt bike shop that carries a few street items.
They have my fork seals, oil filters and plugs. Which rocks cause its a 5 minute walk from my house!
They charge me $4 and change..

The cool thing about the plug end is you can put all that back together, in fact in for a penny in for a pound. Trim all the wires and reattach the boots. Not you know all 4 are minty!

[Damian]

Thanks again guys. I trimmed off the corroded end and screwed it back in last night before I realized you were supposed to do that, but I don't think I did a very good job. It actually seemed to run great (idled it in the yard for a while). This morning (armed with the knowledge that screwing the boot back in was OK) I woke up a little early and did a better job.

Last night on more than one occasion I pulled some gas lines loose in the dark and didn't realize it until I started it and the smell of gasoline pouring out hit me. This morning, I realized I have a lose hose at the carb still (my big, gorilla hands can't reach in there to reattach it without detaching the carbs from the airbox) so I couldn't test it.

Maybe this afternoon I'll have it running again!

[Damian]

Dammmmmmittttttt

I got it all put back together and it's still exhibiting the same symptoms as it was on Friday.

It starts fine with the choke most of the way open and runs at about 4k RPMs. If I open the choke all the way, it runs at about 5k RPMs, but I usually try to back it off until it's about 3k. Before Friday, I could ween it completely off the choke within 2 minutes - about 1.5k RPMs.

Now, if I take the choke off all the way, it dies; but this might be because the idle is not set right, I've messed with the idle so much, I no longer have any idea where it should be. If the idle is set so that it is barely touching the lever that opens the butterflies, it will stall. I have to give it maybe 2 or 4 full turns to keep it lit at about 3k RPMs. If I set the idle below about 2.5k RPMs and give the throttle a healthy twist it will usually start to die (flooding I guess).

So if I set the idle to about 3k RPMs and twist the throttle, it will rev and fall fairly normally. However, if I put it in gear and try to get it rolling the RPMs will fall dramatically once I start to hit the friction zone - I bring the clutch back in and the RPMs will go back to about 3k or it will die. I've tried revving the engine to about 4k RPMs and letting out the clutch very slowly, but the RPMs drop WAY too fast and it's on the brink of dying when I squeeze the clutch back in - before it even starts to roll.

Yesterday when I pulled the plugs out, they did not look like the first picture over here. They were a little brown and dry, but not as bad as the second picture. Do they have to be as ugly as the second picture to be fouled? Will it tell me anything if I check for spark against the frame?

Should I still be thinking something's clogged in the carbs? I just can't believe it because they were so clean when I partially broke them down. I'm still waiting on my last two spark plugs from BikeBandit (slow rascals), but I'll try swapping them out when they get here. Even if they are getting fouled, that's a symptom, not the problem, right?

Could it be a compression problem? It's a '94 and you can tell this bike hasn't been babied it's whole life.

Uggghhh. This is my first bike and I want to be riding it, not busting my knuckles on it.

Everyone's help has been great, any further insight is greatly appreciated.

[Black_peter]

Damn D wish I were in Texas..
OK what you are describing could be a few things.
Fouled plugs stuck floats. lots.
1. Clean the plugs really well.
2. Drain the carbs.
3. Make sure the wires are all nice and tight.
4. add gas to the carb by flipping to pri then off.
Keep the vacuum line off and carb #4 tube plugged.
5. Try and give her a go.

No choke. Just throttle.
(with the weather you have been having you don't need choke and it's will cause trouble)

Keep it running if you can try and adjust the idle.
If you can't (I know this stinks) but check your FA screws. Make sure everything is there, shoot some cleaner in the holes and start with 2 turns out. I think you have something leading to rich running on a few but maybe not all cylinders.

I had to tear my carbs apart 3 times before I got it running right

[Damian]

Thanks for coming to my rescue yet again, Peter. About your 4th step: You want me to remove the vacuum tube from the petcock then close the vacuum tube off?

I'm going to have a couple cocktails and go through your steps tomorrow.

[chriskat1100]

HAY Damiam make sure your petcock in on..on
and not prime?if you have to take the tank off and look at the petcock to see where it is

[Black_peter]

Thanks for coming to my rescue yet again, Peter. About your 4th step: You want me to remove the vacuum tube from the petcock then close the vacuum tube off?

I'm going to have a couple cocktails and go through your steps tomorrow.

Yeah i didn't fully explain that.. What we want to do is get some gas into the bowls.. But we don't want it to refill itself. This was if we have bad valves in the carbs or a stuck float that won't flood the engine. So with the vacuum line off the petcock the gas will not flow at ON or RES. We will flip to PRI real quick (like 5 count) then back to off.
I forgot to ask, what does the exhaust look like?