600\750 gsxr tranny gears drop in a gxsf 600?

[tarnold57]

Have my sons bike split apart with the 2nd gear issue(93 600 gsx f)-please don't tell me to swap the engine...Ive done a bit of research and it appears all the older to newer 'f' series 600 &750 use the same gears And the old to new gsx'r' 600 &750 models use the same gears but they are different(teeth, ratios..) from the tranys in the gsx f's. Obviously the cases are exactly the same..So the question I need answered is what would the difference be with a complete gear set from a gsxr (600 or 750)being dropped in my 600 gsxf? Would the shift drum and forks need changed? Would there be power\torque issues at certain rpm\gears? Would the sprocked align properly? I am having trouble finding good used gear sets for the gsxf but have found several for the gsxr models.This is my sons first bike and I'm horned into doing the repairs for him. I have it split-just need to get the parts..Anyone with knowledge or who has done this swap I'll appeciate your input.Sorry for the long post and this is my first Post! Been reading for quite a while... Thanks

[Novelldude]

Might try to find a Bandit 600. I've looked up on RonAyers and found that the gearing is the same for it and the Kat.

I've got the same issue, but Steves up here is already being majorly generous to me for parts.

Good luck.

Edit: And welcome to the boards.


ND

[The CyberPoet]

Personally, I'd suggest simply ordering the actual parts you need new and replacing just those parts. I have no clue what the difference is in terms of engagement spacing and shift drum changes, but I do know that the 01+ GSXR's get a .5mm deeper engagement zone on their second gear teeth as a result of high failure rates in the field from the older style ones.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[noelhoffman]

I also have the dreaded second gear problem, and my question here, since I've been riding it with the problem, is ... mine is a 94 Kat 600. If I replace it with another 600 2nd gear and rod, are they weak parts and that is why it is such a common problem? Are there any parts to repair this that are more reliable and less likely to go out again? Thanks.

[ThAzKat]

the gixer's also have the same problem. I had to replace the gears in gixerkat's gixer. it is a suzuki problem that I think has been taken care of through the years. stick with the oem gears for your bike, you will be better off.

[noelhoffman]

Okay. thanks. I'm just getting a set off ebay to replace the rod and second gear and anything else fubar when i crack the case open. Thanks for the info though.

[ThAzKat]

I think 5th or 6th also has to be replaced. I would check those when you open the case.

[noelhoffman]

Are they like in synch with 2nd? I havent had anywhere to bring it up to 5th or 6th since it started acting up to see if it clanks or anything funny.

[ThAzKat]

Are they like in synch with 2nd? I havent had anywhere to bring it up to 5th or 6th since it started acting up to see if it clanks or anything funny.

does it slip out of second, like a false neutral?
here is a picture/fische that might help you

http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/oem_schematic_view~schem_dept_id~1031022~section_dept_id~1~section_dept_name~OEM+%28Stock%29+Parts~dept_type_id~2~model_dept_year~1995~model_dept_mfr~Suzuki~model_dept_id~987287~model_dept_name~GSX750FS+KATANA.asp

it is reccomended to replace both main and counter shaft gears.
what happens is the dog gears have a tendency to wear down and start slipping.

[chinto]

Are they like in synch with 2nd? I havent had anywhere to bring it up to 5th or 6th since it started acting up to see if it clanks or anything funny.

does it slip out of second, like a false neutral?
here is a picture/fische that might help you

http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/oem_schematic_view~schem_dept_id~1031022~section_dept_id~1~section_dept_name~OEM+%28Stock%29+Parts~dept_type_id~2~model_dept_year~1995~model_dept_mfr~Suzuki~model_dept_id~987287~model_dept_name~GSX750FS+KATANA.asp

it is reccomended to replace both main and counter shaft gears.
what happens is the dog gears have a tendency to wear down and start slipping.

When 2nd gear starts slipping, what kind of mileage could you expect to get out of it before it goes completely? When it does go, will third gear still work?

The reason I ask, is I am dealing with the 2nd gear problem as well and have purchased a 750 motor to swap in. As it sits right now my bike pops into neutral at about 8000-9000 rpms. It seemsto work fine if I do not rev that high in second gear. Unfortunately time is not on my side as I have a number of other projects that are taking priority over the engine swap. If I can get away with another season before the swap I will, but If the likelihood of being stranded 1000 miles away from home is high, I will find the time for the swap.

Sorry if this post is viewed as a hijack, i just thought it was a relevent question for others that may be keeping an eye on this post too.

cheers

[ThAzKat]

if babied it will last a while longer but if you ride like I do, replace it immediately or you will find yourself riding from third to sixth.

[noelhoffman]

I havent had mine slipping out. When I shift from 1st to 2nd, it seems to run neutral for about 2/3 seconds and then slam hard into gear. Then its seems to spin like a burnt clutch in a car and holds no power, unfortunately, I have been riding it very easy since the weather warmed up and I found out that second was gone, I cant shift from 1st to 3rd, I actually have to let the clutch out before I can pull the clutch back in and shift to 3rd. I dont know if this means it is much worse than it simply starting to go out. I ordered a set of used gears, so once they get here, I can inspect them and make sure they are all in good order and begin the tear down to inspect the bike. I just use the bike for mass transportation around here. I live in a college town and parking is absolutely horrible, but with it still chilly, I never have to look for parking if I take the bike. Hopefully the gears will be here in a couple of days and I'll hit up the forum to get some feedback. Thanks.

[ThAzKat]

did you check the clutches?
and another thing that comes to mind is type of oil, what oil are you using?

[noelhoffman]

Im running synthetic 20w50, has had a fresh change a couple weeks ago, before I even started riding it again with the weather clearing up. When I parked it for winter I didnt have this issue. After the change and starting riding it again, my chain was loose, thinking it was just the chain I just tightened it back up to spec, although the chain is pretty stretched I'm touching number 2 mark and still a little more slack than I like but still the second gear issue. Clutch, well I dont have the experience with a bike to know but it doesnt have a problem in any other gear and the clutch cable is within specs. If it were a car, I could separate the tranny from the clutch and visually tell, but in a bike. No clue. Although if it were the clutch, only in second gear doesnt sound right. Thanks for any feedback though. It helpful to take a look at all the opinions to help diagnose the problem.

[kiba]

Be very careful riding with a bad 2nd gear! Some of the people here have reported that their tranny locked completely after 2nd went out. When 2nd goes, the gear itself generally breaks into several pieces and can get lodged just about anywhere. You'll probably have to clean pieces out of your oil pan, too.

/kiba