Hi performance in a can

[Older Guy]

Guys:

I have been using this stuff for years...started in airplanes and approved by the FAA.

http://www.microlon.com/detail.asp?product_id=ILM08

$29.95

Put a can (8 oz) in the ZX-10R this afternoon and HOLY SH*T, it now really goes like HELL. You put 2 oz in the gas tank...

Went off with some Gixxers and blew (oh, I shouldn't say that), they were all shaking their heads when they pulled up at the next signal...

[SweetLou]

Access denied here at work, guess I will have to wait until I get home.

[Anonymous]

Re: Hi performance in a can

Went off with some Gixxers and blew (oh, I shouldn't say that), they were all shaking their heads when they pulled up at the next signal...

Are you sure that just isn't your ZX10R?

[Older Guy]

Hahahahaha...the guys on the SSBC forum are all giving me SH*T saying snake oil and all that...

Well the butt dyno beats rhetoric every time...

Yeah the 10 is fastest thing on wheels, but now I can suck the air out of their tires when I go by...

[The CyberPoet]

From their website:
Microlon significantly reduces the harmful effects of friction by coating internal engine parts with a durable micro-thin dry film lubricant coating.

This would lead me to believe that it isn't suitable for wet-clutch applications... Reading onwards, I found they claim:
HOW DOES MICROLON WORK IN A MOTORCYCLE WITH A WET CLUTCH?
Forming the Microlon film is important in a wet clutch or a positraction limited slip rear differential, because they are high friction environments. The Microlon resin does not stick to the fiber in the wet clutch plates, but it does allow for easier action in the splines. Using Microlon reduces clutch hang up and reduces wear.

So off I went to find the MSDS (material safety data sheet), to see what this mystery chemical composition was... because, after all, if it was so wiz-bang, the oil companies might be all over it... and lo and behold, at first I couldn't find one specifically for the product listed. So I read through all of them. Here's what I found:

(A) The primary active ingredient for our purposes in the MIL motorcycle engine treatment is ZDDP, the same wonderful chemical formulation placed into motor oils (and which is found in higher concentrations in API SF/SG rated oils than the current SJ & SL rated oils, as well as in higher than current API specs in all JASO-MA rated oils). Given that, it really shouldn't screw with your wet clutch. The fact that you put some in the gas tank just helps ensure that it reaches the combustion chamber faster than it would through the oiling system...

(B) The primary active ingredients in the CL-100 are highly flammable fuel system/metal cleaners (standard petroleum hydrocarbons, Trimethyl Benzene, plus Stoddard solvent - aka dry clean solvent found in WD40). Nothing special there either. More over, their claim of this formulation forming a hard film is highly questionable, as all of these things should evaporate off fairly rapidly after liquifying sludge deposits in the oil system (where they want you to put it!) and the vapors should then be pulled through the Kat's oil vent system back into the airbox. The fact that they caution you to use it in stages (in more than one day of riding) reinforces this concept.

Hmmm...
So what's my take?
It's cheaper to buy good oil than it is to buy good oil additives, but the additives in this Motorcycle Engine Treatment product do pretty much what they claim -- exactly the same stuff good oil with a high ZDDP component would.
As for the CL-100, it seems to snake oil in the sense that it would cut the oil's viscosity temporarily and then evaporate off -- switching to a racing oil instead (like Castrol R4) would probably be more effective.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[ThAzKat]

WOW Cyber, are you bored again? lol

[Older Guy]

Normally I'd agree with you...and have been flamed in another forum for posting this with the snake oil claim...but all I know is the stuff worked miracles in my manual transmission.

Secondly, the stuff didn't work immediately...it took about an hour of running for the peformance to be noticed...if it was just a viscosity reducer, I'd notice the difference immediately.

[the wind]

Normally I'd agree with you...and have been flamed in another forum for posting this with the snake oil claim...but all I know is the stuff worked miracles in my manual transmission.

Secondly, the stuff didn't work immediately...it took about an hour of running for the peformance to be noticed...if it was just a viscosity reducer, I'd notice the difference immediately.

what kind of oil do you have in the beast now(witch synthetic).is cyber right,did you just improve your oil?

[Wingspan]

Well the butt dyno beats rhetoric every time...

The "butt dyno" is just rhetoric unless it can be backed up.

[Older Guy]

Normally I'd agree with you...and have been flamed in another forum for posting this with the snake oil claim...but all I know is the stuff worked miracles in my manual transmission.

Secondly, the stuff didn't work immediately...it took about an hour of running for the peformance to be noticed...if it was just a viscosity reducer, I'd notice the difference immediately.

what kind of oil do you have in the beast now(witch synthetic).is cyber right,did you just improve your oil?

Motul I think...full synthetic...from Mach One at around $45.00 a gallon...

[The CyberPoet]

Normally I'd agree with you...and have been flamed in another forum for posting this with the snake oil claim...but all I know is the stuff worked miracles in my manual transmission.

Secondly, the stuff didn't work immediately...it took about an hour of running for the peformance to be noticed...if it was just a viscosity reducer, I'd notice the difference immediately.

Are we talking about the MIL or the CL-100? I could see the MIL adding more ZDDP to the gear teeth for better action (especially if sulfuric acid formed at some previous time from high sulfer content of conventional motor oils combined with water such as condensation -- which tends to pit the tranny metals easily). I could also see the CL-100 stripping varnish and gunk out to also give you cleaner shifting (and increased oil delivery to the tranny). But by definition, the CL100 should be a viscosity reducer, which should make it noticable very quickly in terms of butt dyno power...

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[Older Guy]

Normally I'd agree with you...and have been flamed in another forum for posting this with the snake oil claim...but all I know is the stuff worked miracles in my manual transmission.

Secondly, the stuff didn't work immediately...it took about an hour of running for the peformance to be noticed...if it was just a viscosity reducer, I'd notice the difference immediately.

Are we talking about the MIL or the CL-100? I could see the MIL adding more ZDDP to the gear teeth for better action (especially if sulfuric acid formed at some previous time from high sulfer content of conventional motor oils combined with water such as condensation -- which tends to pit the tranny metals easily). I could also see the CL-100 stripping varnish and gunk out to also give you cleaner shifting (and increased oil delivery to the tranny). But by definition, the CL100 should be a viscosity reducer, which should make it noticable very quickly in terms of butt dyno power...

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

No - the CL-1000 is not recommended...if it was just a viscosity reducer, I'd notice the performance benefit immediately. This was not the case on the ZX-10R...I ran the stuff in the crankcase and gas tank for over an hour before I could "feel" some noticable difference in performance...just went out for another hour or two today and it definitely shifts better than it ever did...engine is still running stronger like I noticed after a good long ride/run yesterday...and it isn't snake oil/halo effect...the butt dyno can really tell the difference....as does the left shifter foot...

[The CyberPoet]

No - the CL-1000 is not recommended...if it was just a viscosity reducer, I'd notice the performance benefit immediately. This was not the case on the ZX-10R...I ran the stuff in the crankcase and gas tank for over an hour before I could "feel" some noticable difference in performance...just went out for another hour or two today and it definitely shifts better than it ever did...engine is still running stronger like I noticed after a good long ride/run yesterday...and it isn't snake oil/halo effect...the butt dyno can really tell the difference....as does the left shifter foot...

OK, so you went with the MIL -- I can see it improving (at least temporarily, until it wears away) the ring's seal area and reducing the lubricant need at many points in the engine. This is the same reason that virtually every motor oil on the market uses the same compound (ZDDP) in their formulation -- although I'm going to guess that the MIL has a very high amount of it by comparison. Not sure if it has $25 worth of it, but I'm happy that you're happy and there's no reason it shouldn't work as advertised, especially on bikes that had cheap oil and/or a lack of on-time oil changes in their lives.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[kwebbel]

Overhere there was a discussion on this topic too some time ago.
In the end I wrote a mail to TNO-automotives (they are an scientific independent research-centre on a wide variety of things)
After some time I came in contact with the right group of scientists working on these subjects)

Dear Mr Hanneman,

Regarding your questions about oil additives, please call me.

TNO Automotive
Gerrit Kadijk, B.Sc.
Test engineer Powertrains

P.O. Box 6033
2600 JA Delft

Schoemakerstraat 97,
2628 VK Delft

Phone: 31-15-2696730
Fax: 31-15-2627639

E-mail: [email protected]
Internet: www.automotive.tno.nl

So i called this man and talked to him for about half an hour.
Their answer was very resolute and demostating for oil-additives...
not-prooven, possibly damaging the engine(!), expensive, in short they named it "baked air" (he didn't state it could not work, but it's not scientifically proven)

In return on this I asked them about the positive experiences people state on this.
They answered as follows.
Dear sir, If you would really experience a better driveability by the application of such products it would indicate some problem due to cheap worn or wrong oil, or a mechanical problem coming up.

Their advice, stick to a good oil-brand, do the prescripted oilchanges on time, give the oil and engine the chance to reach operation temperature and you will be fine.