known second gear issue?

[crazymofo]

gday all.

hows tricks?

i remember reading a few times about the 2nd gear going on the kats.. so now im wondering, if anyone knows what causes this.. and also ways of helping the box survive?

im thinking it happens in the 1-2 shift, being to hard on the box and 2nd letting go. now ive always been pretty soft on mechanical things, and the way ove riden all my bikes was half rev range, and a full depress of the clutch, shift, then just bang the rest of the gears thru as per normal clutchless shift. but im planning on hitting the strip and doing the above method will take up to much time.

i also remember something about a new shift detent button/star. anyone know something about this too?

with a planned 180hp, im just looking for ways to help the rest of the bike survive this. so any tips would be much appreciated

thanks everyone

cheers.joe.

[md86]

I heard it was mostly with certain year 600's . Don't remember exactly , though .

[Prozak]

take a look at this:

http://katriders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16905&highlight=

I had a worn gear drum...could be also bent shiftforks, worns gears...

[The CyberPoet]

http://www.katriders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19019

AND

http://www.katriders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17088

have pretty much everything you're asking for....

From: http://www.katriders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19019
Tranny failures (esp 2nd gear failures on the Suzuki's) normally happen as a result of rider abuse (period). Specifically:

(A) Upshifting sans clutch into 2nd without unloading the throttle (can be done, but you need to unload the throttle), esp at high RPM's.

(B) Downshifting sans clutch (no manual-shift bike on the market* is built to do clutchless downshifts -- there simply is no way to raise the RPMs to match the shift and unload the engine/tranny at the same time). Bikes with a slipper clutch remove a lot of the rider risks associated with not matching RPMs during a downshift, but still don't cushion the actual gear-face during the down-shift sans clutch.
* - The new '06 Yamaha FJR has a computer controlled shifting system that takes your foot's input as a signal, using it's own solenoids to shift & handle the clutch -- but it's still not downshifting without any clutch use, just without the need for you to activate the clutch manually.

(C) Incomplete or slow shifts -- shifting on a bike should be a fast, hard snapping action designed to slam home the gear (as verses to a car, where slow shifts are rewarded on those with planetary gears to spin up the gear splines in advance of mating).

This issue has been covered in detail before here:
Clutchless shifting
and there's a good, detailed look at failures here:
NTHSA investigation: Suzuki, sales figures & 2nd gear failure rates for '99 - '01 GSXF & GSXR750's

This little segment specifically from that NHTSA investigation I think bears the most merit to answer your question (Suzuki sez - excerpt):
...motorcycle that has this condition [2nd gear failure] must be subjected to repeated improper and/or abusive shifting (i.e. - incomplete shifting or shifting without using the clutch).

Yes, drag racers and track racers shift sans clutch all the time -- trading the reliability factor for the tenth of a second speed differences. But their vehicles get rebuilt on a regular basis as a result.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[The CyberPoet]

Re: known second gear issue?

i also remember something about a new shift detent button/star. anyone know something about this too?

FactoryPro.com.
Replaces the stock shifter spring with a stiffer spring that requires more force before the shifter starts moving, helping ensure a faster, harder engagement. A wise upgrade, and I don't know why Suzuki didn't simply go to a stiffer spring in the first place.

with a planned 180hp, im just looking for ways to help the rest of the bike survive this. so any tips would be much appreciated

180 HP? How much torque?
If it were mine, I'd shift out of 1st and 2nd by 5k RPM or so, then wind it out. Fast, snap-shifts with the clutch in and allowing the RPMs to fall by 1k or so between the clutch-in and the actually shift event. On the down-shifts, I'd do the reverse (rev it up by 1k or so), and by all means, avoid going back down into gears that are outside the current RPM range of the engine (i.e. - DON'T: roll along at 60 mph, clutch in, RPM's at idle, and repeatedly shifting down because you're going to come to a stop -- wait until you're below 18 mph or lower before going back into 2nd, walking speed for 1st, and blip the throttle with the clutch in to raise the revs while down-shifting).

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet