[arsenic]

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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...3AIT&viewitem=
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[2005kat]

gsxr 1000 throttle bodies

i just pulled the throttle bodies out of the box that i got them in. The only thing that worries me is that fuel rail is plastic so i will have to make one. I priced the MS it's 139.99 unassembled and 240.00 already put together and I have to find a fuel pump that will fit down by the starter but i'm taking one step at a time.

[ericej2344]

When you check the fitment on the bike let us know.

[TheSteve]

Wow those look quite a bit different from the 600s throttles. Let us know if it fits. The plastic fuel rail is interesting, I didnt notice that before. Good luck!

[Newbie2it]

Depending on the year they came from, it can be plastic. The one on my 04 750 are plastic. They look the same as the ones on mine just mine are smaller. BTW, dont impact the injectors, they are sensative little buggers and dont ever remove the STVA from the throttle bodies. Its the black thing on the left side of your first picture above. You can disassemble the TPS and the STP sensors however for cleaning. Just mark their positions prior to removal. Oh, one other thing, dont twist that tee in the center of the fuel rail, you'll damage the ends.

[TheSteve]

The stva thing is the secondary butterflies controller, right? You dont need or want it for this. The MS cant control it so you have to yank it all out.

[Newbie2it]

Wow those look quite a bit different from the 600s throttles. Let us know if it fits. The plastic fuel rail is interesting, I didnt notice that before. Good luck!

If memory serves me right, which I am almost 100% positive it does. Didn't you at one time mention you had to cut and grind down your fuel rail? Which I beleive you posted a picture of, Which is black just like the rest of them. I could be wrong, but I do remember you mentioning that the distance was very short that you bridged and weren't afraid of it bursting, till someone pointed out Ethanol eats rubber LOL Weren't those rails plastic?

[TheSteve]

Nah the one I have is bare aluminum. Its most definitely not plastic. The overall structure of the throttle bodies is different as well, check out the pics on the first page or so. I think the 01-03 are all like mine, the 04s were different. I did doublecheck that hose though, its made out of the same stuff fuel hose is. Hasnt given me any problems yet.

Ive been posting from my phone so looking this stuff up is somewhat difficult, but are you SURE those are from an 03? unless the 600 and 1000 throttles look completely different I think you have an 04 or newer set. The 01-03 600s have aluminum fuel rails, complerely different throttle cable linkage, and a different overall shape from the pics you posted. They would work with the MS either way, but fitment will be different from mine (maybe better, maybe worse).

[Newbie2it]

Yes, The STVA controls the secondaries. I didnt realise you'd removed them during the build. In this case it would be useless including the STP. My TBs are on a K4 which is a plastic fuel rail. Simular to the picture above. But the rest remains regarding twisting the "T" fitting on the plastic rails. Dunno if theres a way to "Shorten" the rail like you had to do with yours.

BTW, good to know the line you used is Gas safe.

[TheSteve]

Ok now that I'm finally at a real computer and can see the pics:

Those are definitely later throttles. These are the early type. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/01-02...Q5fAccessories

Dont fret though, the reason I didn't want the later style was because on the 04 you cannot alter the spacing between 1-2 and 3-4, but only between 2-3. On the 01 style each throttle body is separate so you can space them all out however you want. But, I ended up only having to gap between 2-3. The other's spacing was fine, and I didn't have to touch them.

Looking through other listings on ebay, I see where the confusion came from. The literbike's throttles went to the "later" style a year before the 600 and 750. So you'd want 01-03 600/750 throttles or 01-02 1000 throttles to clone my setup. I think you'll be alright though.

Again I stress that the best place to buy these would probably be from GSXR forums. The secondary butterflies fail very often, and suzuki will not sell them separately. So people end up pretty much throwing them away when theyre still perfect for something like this.

[il_ragazzo]

ok so ive just bought a 1052 motor cdi and harness yesterday for only 180 so my next step it to start thinking of and looking for EFI parts... I was thinking about how much power i will be putting down to the ground and thought perhaps i should have a rain setting or a half power button... is this possible to do with the mega squirt/ micro squirt system and would i need an external switch? is there a way to have external controlers pluged into the MS system?

[TheSteve]

Its possible. Theres a Nitrous function where when the nitrous is activated it uses a different map. You could rig up the nitrous mode to run a table with very little ignition advancing at high RPM. Thatll make it pretty gutless above 4000rpm or so (or wherever you stop advancing it). You can run a simple switch and tell the MS that when it goes hot, switch to table 2. Note that this is a more advanced install: timing isnt something you want to mess with while still trying to get it running. You could set it up so that it stops delivering fuel altogether above X load and Y rpm but that could lead to issues such as the inability to downshift and move when you have to.

I believe the way the GSXR does its low power modes if with modulation of the secondary throttles and messing with the ignition timing. You can't just cut fuel somewhat, youll run lean and blow. If you set a hard fuel cut, you won't be able to accelerate out of the way in an emergency. The correct way to do a power cut is with a drive-by-wire system where the computer controls the throttle. Ford does this often nowadays, but its one of the most complained about features (lag, etc). Not something you'd really want on a bike.

Long story short, if you really want it on a katana, I wouldn't change the rev limit much. Maybe set it at 7000 or so, thatll still have you with a max speed of 90ish. I'd run dual table mode with ignition timing retarded severely. With as high as this engine revs, cutting the advance out should stifle the majority of the power, especially above 4000.

Edit: I forgot to add something. If you ARE controlling timing with the MS, you dont really need the new CDI for your motor. Since youre making your own timing map the preprogrammed map in the CDI is irrelevant. Now heres where it gets fun: No one knows the stock map. Triggering off the CDIs coil outputs is going to give the MS the advanced signal. To do timing control, you need either the raw TDC timing or you need to know the stock map to translate the advanced signal to the raw one. Personally, if I was doing timing Id scrap the CDI altogether. Id make or buy a new trigger wheel and install that where the current one is. Itll have to be 4 cyl wasted spark capable, maybe the Ford EDIS system? Maybe the GM DIS type? Not sure, but you'll have to figure something out if you want to do it RIGHT. Right in this case meaning mathematically correct timing. You could just wing it with the stock advanced signal, add timing until you get pinging then back of a degree or two and call it good. Honestly either would work, but one lets you know exactly how much advance youre running, the other just says 10 degrees plus X (X being the stock CDIs advance) equals it running well.

Edit again: The EDIS ignition system is looking for a wheel with a missing tooth, of a certain count (36 teeth I think). The Katana wheel has 4 teeth, one longer than the others. Maybe it'd work with the DIS system, I'm not too familiar with it. What I do know is that the wheel can be picked up and read by other GM systems (HEI) but they need a distributor. Maybe you'll get lucky, I'll look around and see what kind of wheel it needs, maybe the stocker will work. Don't get your hopes up though.

[il_ragazzo]

wow what a informative response!

Its possible. Theres a Nitrous function where when the nitrous is activated it uses a different map. You could rig up the nitrous mode to run a table with very little ignition advancing at high RPM. Thatll make it pretty gutless above 4000rpm or so (or wherever you stop advancing it). You can run a simple switch and tell the MS that when it goes hot, switch to table 2. Note that this is a more advanced install: timing isnt something you want to mess with while still trying to get it running. You could set it up so that it stops delivering fuel altogether above X load and Y rpm but that could lead to issues such as the inability to downshift and move when you have to.

I believe the way the GSXR does its low power modes if with modulation of the secondary throttles and messing with the ignition timing. You can't just cut fuel somewhat, youll run lean and blow. If you set a hard fuel cut, you won't be able to accelerate out of the way in an emergency. The correct way to do a power cut is with a drive-by-wire system where the computer controls the throttle. Ford does this often nowadays, but its one of the most complained about features (lag, etc). Not something you'd really want on a bike.

Long story short, if you really want it on a katana, I wouldn't change the rev limit much. Maybe set it at 7000 or so, thatll still have you with a max speed of 90ish. I'd run dual table mode with ignition timing retarded severely. With as high as this engine revs, cutting the advance out should stifle the majority of the power, especially above 4000.

Edit: I forgot to add something. If you ARE controlling timing with the MS, you dont really need the new CDI for your motor. Since youre making your own timing map the preprogrammed map in the CDI is irrelevant. Now heres where it gets fun: No one knows the stock map. Triggering off the CDIs coil outputs is going to give the MS the advanced signal. To do timing control, you need eith3er the raw TDC timing or you need to know the stock map to translate the advanced signal to the raw one. Personally, if I was doing timing Id scrap the CDI altogether. Id make or buy a new trigger wheel and install that where the current one is. Itll have to be 4 cyl wasted spark capable, maybe the Ford EDIS system? Maybe the GM DIS type? Not sure, but you'll have to figure something out if you want to do it RIGHT. Right in this case meaning mathematically correct timing. You could just wing it with the stock advanced signal, add timing until you get pinging then back of a degree or two and call it good. Honestly either would work, but one lets you know exactly how much advance youre running, the other just says 10 degrees plus X (X being the stock CDIs advance) equals it running well.

Edit again: The EDIS ignition system is looking for a wheel with a missing tooth, of a certain count (36 teeth I think). The Katana wheel has 4 teeth, one longer than the others. Maybe it'd work with the DIS system, I'm not too familiar with it. What I do know is that the wheel can be picked up and read by other GM systems (HEI) but they need a distributor. Maybe you'll get lucky, I'll look around and see what kind of wheel it needs, maybe the stocker will work. Don't get your hopes up though.

ok well it will be a while (prolly about 4 months) before i really start my EFI swap anyways, so im not to worried about it i'll figure some way of doing it. but its good to know that the MS constroler has the capacity to do this function.

so your setup doesn't control ingnition? And whats stoping us from taking the IGN controler, ect from a gsxr , bandit?
couldn't i splice a conection from the cdi to the ign controler for the ms and have it record the IGN timing then tinker from there?

Finding a way to adjust IGN timing will open alot of doors for things like traction control and tuning...

To be honest right now all of this is above my head and i have alot of reading to do. but i dont even know what half of the systems your talking about are or what they do. I.E HEI, DIS, EDIS, and countless others in this thread. Hell i dont even know what the CDI stands for! But my passionate hatred for carbs will drive me to do this mod. thanks steves!

[TheSteve]

I've done a full setup before with ignition timing because I wanted to ditch the stock ECU. Here, since it was a little more complicated I figured I'd just leave the timing control to the CDI. I just didn't feel like messing with timing, to be honest. If you're out for balls-out power, you'll want to do it. If you just want reliability and a hair more power, you don't need it.

As for the GSXR/bandit/whatever ignition module: timing advance is very different between different engines. Bore, stroke, compression, operating temp, valve shape, etc all affect ignition timing. Chances are good that your engine that you're building is going to be too far away from the specs of any of those bikes to make it a bolt on power improver. It'll run, but not as well as it could.

I don't know if theres really a way to log the mechanical timing against actual advanced ignition timing either, so it might be tricky. The easiest way is probably going to be to intercept the CDI-advanced signal, and add in more advance of your own as you need it. I made this sound like a very bad way of doing it above, but honestly you'll get the same result. The only real "bad" thing is you're limited on timing retardation. The maximum limit on retard is going to be the CDIs advance (opposed to 0 degrees before top dead center). So its not gonna be great for traction control, but you could still do a mode that keeps power somewhat contained..

http://www.megamanual.com/index.html Heres where to start reading. Going down the index on the left, look for all the different ignition systems. That'll explain the HEI, DIS, and EDIS. I looked a bit already and I'm not sure it'll really apply to Katanas unless you go absolutely crazy with it and decide to put in the legwork to adapt a custom trigger wheel. And CDI is the little ignitor box under your seat. Its actually a misnomer; its NOT a CDI type ignition! No idea where it got its name, but it stuck..

[TheSteve]

Hmm. Possible good news for someone out there wanting to 'squirt their katana. I picked up a new unrelated project, and need to upgrade one of my megasquirts to the 3.0 board for VR decoding. So I'll likely be selling one of my ECUs soon. It's an MS1 cpu on a 2.2 board, slightly modded to run a single spark output. While the spark output wouldn't be very useful on a katana (the kat needs two outputs) it doesn't interfere with normal operation of the ECU. If anyone is interested, let me know via PM. It's been in use without issue for just over a year now.

EDIT: Actually, I'll have one of two for sale. One is the one described above, the second is a untouched MS1/2.2 kit from diyautotune at a discounted price. One of my friends needed me to build him one, I could save myself some time by selling his kit and giving him my assembled one. Diyautotune wants $140+shipping for their kit, I'd do $140 shipped. Their price for an assembled one is $240+shipping, I'd sell mine guaranteed to work for $220 shipped (and pretuned for a Kat, just add wiring). Remember I can only sell one of these, the other goes to my buddy.