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  • Ok...you need to take this advice, or not!

    OK....I am going to say this one last time. YOU DO NOT WET SAND YOUR BASE COAT BEFORE APPLYING THE CLEAR!!! I have said it a dozen times on here through the years, but I guess people are stubborn or just don't want to listen. Or there is someone on here who thinks you should and is preaching it to everyone. .

    and anyone who believes you are supposed to is following some bad advice/information.

    and any of you who are taking 600, 800...even up to 2000 grit and smoothing off your base coat...well, here's the thing. that clear needs to grip to something. that would be the roughish surface of the base coat. sanding that off is just increasing the chance that your clear will eventually flake off.

    PLUS, the base coat is designed to get it's "depth" from the paint "atomizing" or something like that, and the various pigments "settle" onto the surface is an overlapping fashion....which is what gives you your depth. sanding all that off and making it smooth basically turns your painted surface into more of a checker board type surface, instead of a 3 dimensional surface.....which means NO DEPTH.not all your depth comes from the clear, you know.

    Do you get where I am coming from here? Painting is an art form. part of that art is learning how to lay your color(s). especially metallic. the art in laying metallic is your base mixed VERY WELL (which means you gotta shake the sh*t out of a rattle can), so that the metallic will mix uniformally. anyone who has ever bought metallic paint in a can will tell you that after not to long sitting on a shelf, all that metallic settles to the bottom of the can. bigger the can, the thicker the "sludge" of metallic on the bottom. you actually have to dig in a bit to loosen it up.then you need to spray it evenly....and LEAVE IT LIKE THAT.

    anyhoo...back to my point. sanding your basecoat, imho, turns your paint job to "inferior"....unless you are using a fleet color. you know....a solid color. no metallic at all. Go ahead and sand if you want to...not my concern. I am just telling you straight up....it's bad avice and a total myth that is the way you are supposed to do it. See all these nice colors on cars? beautiful colors...full of depth. you think they sand the base coat? they don't. all robotics. on goes the base, it flashes, then on goes the clear. never seen no robotic sanders. have you?

    DO NOT SAND YOUR BASE COAT BEFORE CLEARING!!

    but hey....that's just advice. follow it or not. I don't really care. I am just trying to help you improve your paint jobs. wet sanding your base coat amounts to nothing but more prep time, and making your paint job inferior to what it could be. you are basically making your paint job "shallow, because you wet sand off all the depth. You may think your paint job looks great...and it probably does, but put another bike with the same paint job without wet sanding, beside your bike, and a good eye will see the difference. I would. I spot those things.

    ok...rant done. I just happened to see one too many conversations going on about wet sanding the base coat, and well....you just ain't supposed to do it and you should stop.

    oh...and don't go pointing me to any sites who say you should. I will stick to the car companies way, and the paint manufacturers suggestion. not one will tell you to wet sand the base coat. The ONLY thing you should be runnng over the base coat is a tack rag, and that's it.

    here...this is the jist of it. well explained. http://www.easypaintyourcar.com/CarP...tcarpaint.html
    Last edited by Mojoe; 06-15-2010, 11:24 PM.
    I don't have a short temper. I just have a quick reaction to bullshit.





  • #2

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    • #3
      I just don't get why people would want to sand their base coat? If you have orane peel after clearing just give it a little wet sand and then polish her up. I'm in the middle of painting my kat ( first time actually painting anything big with adequate amounts of prepping) and had quite a bit of orange peel after clearing, I used quite a bit of clear because I was afraid of possibly burning through it wet sanding and polishing. I like the way its turning out so far, I wish it was a little more glossy but I think its pretty good for my first time and with a rattle can job. http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=109987
      you can't really see the metalic in the pictures but in person you can.
      Do you know why Santa is so jolly.... Because he knows where all the naughty girls live..

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      • #4
        Originally posted by unit44justin View Post
        I just don't get why people would want to sand their base coat?
        because someone told them they should. all it takes is someone to tell them that they should, and they do it. so the blame lies with the ones giving the information....and hopefully this post will be read by those who teach this, and they will stop doing it....telling others they should, that is. it is bad information, and it should cease before this just flat out becomes the standard method on this forum.

        I grew up around a paint shop and was learning how to paint before base coat - clear coat even existed....or at least until it became the standard. I even attended a demonstration by an RM rep who demonstrated some of their products. The rep sanded nothing but the primer, which btw, is perfectly fine with 400 grit. there is no need to sand with 2000. save that fine grit for the clear coats after it's all done.

        but like I said....people can do what they like. I am just trying to save them a lot of work that they are doing for nothing.
        I don't have a short temper. I just have a quick reaction to bullshit.




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        • #5
          I have never understood it either. I wonder if the confusion lies in the phrase 'color-sanding'. The only time base should be wetsanded is if new base is going to be re-applied before clearing. I feel ya Mike, seeing things like this drive me nuts as well.


          Help Support Katriders.com via Motorcyclegear.com

          Originally posted by EmpiGTV
          You know why you shouldn't hold in your farts? Because they'll travel up your spine and into your brain. That's where shitty ideas come from.

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          • #6


            I followed the directions on the can. It said "allow base coat to flash for at least 20 minutes, then apply clear"
            -Steve


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            • #7
              to be honest, Teddy, I don't even know what "color-sanding" is. it's not a term I have ever used, or heard anyone I know, use.

              and it;s like you said....the base should only be sanded if new base is going right back on...and that should only be done if you get a run or some other crap in the base.

              For the record, this is what set me off, and what I am talking about. it's just bad information, simple as that.

              Originally posted by beachflyer View Post
              did u wetsand before the clear coat? that should make it shine. The more layers of clear coat you put on it the more it should shine. Looks great
              Originally posted by cmurdah View Post
              Yea I wetsanded very lightly before clear.
              I won't even get into the myth that "the more clear you apply, the more it will shine", theory. I will let "don't sand the base coat" advice sink in first. but I will say that I can get just as nice a shine with 3 coats as someone will with 5, 6...or even 7 coats. more clear can actually make it worse if the coats under it went on "milky". also, with flexible parts like plastics on a bike, thinner is always better than thicker. clear eventually gets "brittle". the more there is, the more likely you will have cracks in the clear.

              naturally I hate to use beachflyer as an example, but it is an example. somewhere, someone told him that is the way you are supposed to do it, and now he will pass that info on to others who are learning, as you can see. I don't blame him for it because he was just given bad info. hopefully he will read this thread and stop sharing that bad info.
              Last edited by Mojoe; 06-16-2010, 09:05 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
              I don't have a short temper. I just have a quick reaction to bullshit.




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              • #8
                touche
                -Steve


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                • #9
                  Thank TLC/Discovery for that one...they used to use it all the time on that HotRod show with Boyd Coddington...and I know I heard it on Overhaulin a couple times as well...You know, because everything on TV is perfectly spot on and accurate all the time....


                  Yeah, I found that thread and figured that's what did it.


                  Help Support Katriders.com via Motorcyclegear.com

                  Originally posted by EmpiGTV
                  You know why you shouldn't hold in your farts? Because they'll travel up your spine and into your brain. That's where shitty ideas come from.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by teddy View Post
                    Thank TLC/Discovery for that one...they used to use it all the time on that HotRod show with Boyd Coddington...and I know I heard it on Overhaulin a couple times as well...You know, because everything on TV is perfectly spot on and accurate all the time....
                    well some of those "pro painters" in hotrod paint shops may sand their base (I don't know if they do or not), but you have to take into consideration that the majority of their work is not just standard base coat - clear coat. more often than not it is tri-coats and such....and often their metallic or pearls are in the first coat or two of clear before the final coats of clear.
                    I don't have a short temper. I just have a quick reaction to bullshit.




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                    • #11
                      i sanded my base because i had some bugs that landed in it

                      VERY light wet sand with 2000 grit..

                      if im not mistaken, someone did tell me to sand base coat before clear in the thread i made. people are just misinformed. this makes my sig correct i guess
                      Originally posted by Slofuze:
                      Some people simply talk sh*t because they don't know what they're talking about. Unfortunately, they reproduce.....and why we have sh*t all around us.

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                      • #12
                        If you sand it, you need to lay more base-paint. I'm only an amateur. Teddy and Mike are the real experts.
                        -Steve


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                        • #13
                          I guess I haven't been paying attention, because I haven't heard anyone sanding their base coat. If I'd noticed, I would have piped up as well. I've NEVER sanded a basecoat, and I'm not sure why anyone would. I guess they're trying to get rid of orange peel before it happens or something?

                          I know with metallic colors, you CAN'T sand the basecoat. Any sanding destorys the metallic particles that you want, and instead of a sparkling, shiney effect, you just get a dull coat. Not good at all.

                          To the initial point of the clear not sticking if you sand the base....I think clear-to-basecoat adhesion is due more to the chemical bond between the two, than to the physical roughness of the basecoat. Most paints I use say to allow the basecoat to flash off for 20 minutes, but NO MORE than 24 hours. If you wait more than 24 hours, you THEN have to sand, and respray base before applying any clear. I think the idea is to get the clear on before the base cures, therefore allowing them both to cure together. Solvents intermix and evaporate as one....or something along those lines.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mojoe View Post
                            well some of those "pro painters" in hotrod paint shops may sand their base (I don't know if they do or not), but you have to take into consideration that the majority of their work is not just standard base coat - clear coat. more often than not it is tri-coats and such....and often their metallic or pearls are in the first coat or two of clear before the final coats of clear.
                            you see Mike, that's just the thing. Those shops use higher quality, more technically involved paint processes than average Joe. Yet average Joe sees it, and assumes it must be the right way to do it regardless of what he's using for said project. Perception and misinformation aren't always fact, although is often gets misconstrued as such...but you and I already know that...

                            I saw another post somewhere where someone was kinda bragging on how much clear they put on their plastics, and all I thought was, 'have fun picking up the flakes in a few months...'
                            Last edited by teddy; 06-16-2010, 11:33 AM.


                            Help Support Katriders.com via Motorcyclegear.com

                            Originally posted by EmpiGTV
                            You know why you shouldn't hold in your farts? Because they'll travel up your spine and into your brain. That's where shitty ideas come from.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tmk7c9 View Post
                              I guess I haven't been paying attention, because I haven't heard anyone sanding their base coat. If I'd noticed, I would have piped up as well. I've NEVER sanded a basecoat, and I'm not sure why anyone would. I guess they're trying to get rid of orange peel before it happens or something?

                              I know with metallic colors, you CAN'T sand the basecoat. Any sanding destorys the metallic particles that you want, and instead of a sparkling, shiney effect, you just get a dull coat. Not good at all.

                              To the initial point of the clear not sticking if you sand the base....I think clear-to-basecoat adhesion is due more to the chemical bond between the two, than to the physical roughness of the basecoat. Most paints I use say to allow the basecoat to flash off for 20 minutes, but NO MORE than 24 hours. If you wait more than 24 hours, you THEN have to sand, and respray base before applying any clear. I think the idea is to get the clear on before the base cures, therefore allowing them both to cure together. Solvents intermix and evaporate as one....or something along those lines.
                              yes, you are right, there is a bonding action going on between the two. and even though it isn't stated as fact, I truly believe the rougher surfaces aids in this "reaction". you know....the clear can easily mix with the base when the base has "pores", so to speak. if you sand the base smooth, well then the clear just has to work that much harder to meld with the base coat.

                              think of your clear as a permanent marker. if you write on paper with a permanent marker, it is permanent. but if you write on glass, or say plastic, then with some rubbing with your thumb, you can remove some of that marker. the marker soaks into the pores of the paper. glass does not have these pores.

                              Originally posted by teddy View Post
                              you see Mike, that's just the thing. Those shops use higher quality, more technically involved paint processes than average Joe. Yet average Joe sees it, and assumes it must be the right way to do it regardless of what he's using for said project. Perception and misinformation aren't always fact, although is often gets misconstrued as such...but you and I already know that...

                              I saw another post somewhere where someone was kinda bragging on how much clear they put on their plastics, and all I thought was, 'have fun picking up the flakes in a few months...'
                              That's right Teddy...I agree with you totally. I guess we just need to speak up more and help get some of these beginners on the right track.
                              Last edited by Mojoe; 06-16-2010, 01:07 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
                              I don't have a short temper. I just have a quick reaction to bullshit.




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