Nicks on Inner Tubes and Other Problems while Changing Fork Seals...Advice Needed!

[crazyaussie]

I began tearing into my front forks today and encountered some problems. I started with the right fork and followed the shop manual to a T. When it came time to separate the lower from the upper tube, I could not do it...and I tried a variety of ways (sliding apart with great velocity, two people with one on each end, etc.). Any advice for separating the two? I gave up and went on to the left fork. I was able to pretty easily separate the lower from the upper, but the oil seal, washer and top bush remained in the lower. I believe this indicates that the bushings are bad correct? I was able to pry out the old oil seal and washer, but am lost as to how to get the top bush out. I've tried to take a picture illustrating this.



How do I get the top bush out of the lower without damaging anything (I'm assuming that is the copperish colored thing in the picture)?

On both fork inners, but worse on the right, I noticed some pretty good sized nicks/gouges from what look like are caused by tools. I'm 100% convinced these are what has caused the seals to leak prematurely. Thom, did you notice these gouges when you were doing my seals?




Is there any way to service the inner tubes without buying new ones? BP, you had mentioned in an earlier thread, http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.p...highlight=fork that you can stone them down...can you explain this? I have a dremel tool with a grinding stone if that's what you are talking about. I really can't afford to pay $175+ for new tubes. Any and all advice is appreciated.

[Wild-Bill]

DON'T use the Dremel! It's too aggressive. Use a good, old fashioned whetting stone to smooth down any burrs. After that, if the gouges are pretty significant you can fill them with epoxy provided you smooth down the epoxy so it's flush with the tube surface.

As for the right fork, you did get the bolt out of the dampener and the retaining ring out of the top of the fork lower, right? Once that's out you should be able to separate the tubes by holding one in each hand and sliding them apart really hard. Think of a slide-hammer. It'll take some force and maybe several attempts but it should go.

[crazyaussie]

DON'T use the Dremel! It's too aggressive. Use a good, old fashioned whetting stone to smooth down any burrs. After that, if the gouges are pretty significant you can fill them with epoxy provided you smooth down the epoxy so it's flush with the tube surface.

You think the Dremel is too aggressive even on the slowest speed? Where does one find a whetting stone and in what fashion do you use it? Up/Down, Side/Side, Circles?

As for the right fork, you did get the bolt out of the dampener and the retaining ring out of the top of the fork lower, right? Once that's out you should be able to separate the tubes by holding one in each hand and sliding them apart really hard. Think of a slide-hammer. It'll take some force and maybe several attempts but it should go.

Well you did make me go out and double check that I had in fact removed the damper bolt, which I had. When I tried pulling the two ends apart I loosened the damper rod seat because I can hear it clanking around in there. I spent a good half hour trying to get the inner and outer tubes apart though with no avail and I'm not a little scrawny guy either!

[arsenic]

dude, I AM a little scrawny guy. I can't walk and only one arm works well. Yet I put the lower fork tube in a vice and I can get the tubes apart easy, like 100 at this point.

[md86]

Yeah , I'd be SURE all bolts were removed . I missed the M6 allen in the bottom the first time I did mine : .

[squiggy]

Yet I put the lower fork tube in a vice and I can get the tubes apart easy.

With CA's forks I bet that's what caused those marks/dimples in the fork legs from those pics he posted.

When I tried pulling the two ends apart I loosened the damper rod seat because I can hear it clanking around in there.

Clarify what you mean by "loosening the damper rod seat".

[crazyaussie]

With CA's forks I bet that's what caused those marks/dimples in the fork legs from those pics he posted.

Yeah, the marks definitely look like tool marks...why anyone would put the inner slider in the vice vs. the lower is beyond me.

Clarify what you mean by "loosening the damper rod seat".

In the repair manual, it mentions to remove the damper rod seat from the bottom of the tube, or tip it out of the slider. Keep in mind, this step follows right after separating the inner from the outer tube. Well, in my multiple attempts at separating the two, I could hear the damper rod seat unsettle and clank around in the lower tube. It won't come out though because the inner tube is still in place.

I have followed the manual to a T, removed all bolts, the retainer clip and I can't get those suckers apart. I don't have a vice in the garage to help and another funny thing is that when I "pull the tube sharply outwards" it seems to catch at full extension and I can't compress it back in the lowers without tapping the lower tube on the garage floor. That part doesn't seem normal to me either. I hope this all makes sense, it's getting pretty late.

[arsenic]

I don't put the lower fork tube in a vice per se. Let me clarify before yall think I'm an idiot. You know the two mounting holes for the caliper. The two tabs that stick out from the tube itself? THAT'S what I tighten in the vice.

those bad boys

Yeah , I'd be SURE all bolts were removed . I missed the M6 allen in the bottom the first time I did mine : .

I missed that one time, just once

[Wild-Bill]

...Where does one find a whetting stone and in what fashion do you use it? Up/Down, Side/Side, Circles?...

Try Wal-Mart, a hardware store or Academy. You do know what I'm talking about, don't you? It's a flat stone used for sharpening knives. As for motion, I'd probably work it in a side/side motion, rounding around the tube. That way you're less likely to wear flat strips up and down on the tube.

It certainly sounds like you've missed some sort of connector on that fork. Last time I did that there was a circlip on top of the seal (Inside the fork lower, under the wiper) that I had missed. Try handing it to that smart-alek friend we all seem to have. They'll probably have it apart in 10 minutes or less. You'll just have to listen to them for the next week or so...

[squiggy]

Yeah, the marks definitely look like tool marks...why anyone would put the inner slider in the vice vs. the lower is beyond me.

My guess would be because they did not loosen the fork caps while the forks were still on the bike.

In the repair manual, it mentions to remove the damper rod seat from the bottom of the tube, or tip it out of the slider. Keep in mind, this step follows right after separating the inner from the outer tube. Well, in my multiple attempts at separating the two, I could hear the damper rod seat unsettle and clank around in the lower tube. It won't come out though because the inner tube is still in place.

Are you using Suzuki's repair manual? I ask because of the terminology "damper rod seat". Once the damping rod bolt is removed from the bottom of the fork the damper rod itself will slide out of the fork by tipping it upside down.

In this pic, is this rod what you mean by "damper rod seat"? Since it's clanking in there it probably is what you mean.

and another funny thing is that when I "pull the tube sharply outwards" it seems to catch at full extension and I can't compress it back in the lowers without tapping the lower tube on the garage floor.

My guess, since it catches at extension, is the two bushings are sliding within each other causing friction and therefore sticking at that point. If that is the case you almost have the two halves separated. The pic you showed of the bushing still in the fork is the outer bushing it usually comes out along with everything else.

Once the the damper rod bolt is removed from the bottom of the fork there is nothing mechanically preventing the two fork halves from separating except the oil seal and it's retaining ring.

[steves]

The reason that people are telling you not to use a dremel tool, is while it makes the job faster, it also increases the risk of slipping and causing an even worse problem.

Going slowly with a stone will keep you from making any nicks, gouges, or mistakes that will be difficult to correct.

[crazyaussie]

Are you using Suzuki's repair manual? I ask because of the terminology "damper rod seat". Once the damping rod bolt is removed from the bottom of the fork the damper rod itself will slide out of the fork by tipping it upside down.

In this pic, is this rod what you mean by "damper rod seat"? Since it's clanking in there it probably is what you mean.

I'm using the Haynes Repair Manual. I believe the damper rod seat referred to in the manual is the silver little piece at the right in the picture above. The damper rod itself slide right out when I removed the damper bolt from the bottom of the fork.

My guess, since it catches at extension, is the two bushings are sliding within each other causing friction and therefore sticking at that point. If that is the case you almost have the two halves separated. The pic you showed of the bushing still in the fork is the outer bushing it usually comes out along with everything else.

Are you sure that's the outer bushing in there? I thought the outer bushing was attached to the outside of the inner tube (shown in picture below).

[squiggy]

Are you sure that's the outer bushing in there? I thought the outer bushing was attached to the outside of the inner tube (shown in picture below).

You could be very well right, I'm going off memory and I don't have the book near me.

Actually now that i think about it the bushing on the outer fork, your first pic, faces inwards. The bushing on the inner fork, on the stanchion, faces outwards.

Either way, for me, both came out when separating the to halves. There are small right-angle flat blade screw drivers that may help getting it out, if you haven't done it already.

[crazyaussie]

Well I finally got the right fork separated. I had to put the axle through the lower, have my brother stand on the axle while I yanked up on the inner tube. After two tries the two halves finally separated. As did the left though, the inner bushing, washer and oil seal stayed in the lower tube. I still haven't figured out how to get the inner bushing out, but will try and find the right angle screw driver you mentioned squiggy.

Does this mean I am in need of all new bushings? Inners AND Outers?

[arsenic]

I usually use new bushing any time I rebuild forks. And that is not the "damper rod seat", Suzuki refers to it as the "oil lock piece"