[The CyberPoet]

My problem is I can not get the brakes to bleed completly. I can keep a constant vacuum but when opening the bleed screw I get constant soda pop type bubbles like I have an air leak.

Also could it be leaking around the caliper fluid seals? Thought I did this correct, it was pretty straight forward. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks.

Since you didn't describe your bleeding method in high detail, there is the outside possibility that you are not doing the bleeding correctly (such as leaving the valve open too long).

(A) You may have a defective hose or coupling. Can happen with any manufacturered product. Contact Gaffer technical assistance with the symptoms and ask them to replace the lines.

(B) The crush washers for the brake lines need to be replaced. If you did not replace them, this could be part of the issue.

(C) Some Gaffer kits have been known to ship with the incorrect banjo bolts (right bolt diameter, wrong thread-turn ratio). If you had any problems with threading in the replacement banjo bolts by hand, you may have cross-stripped one of the receivers. I was also under the impression that Gaffer did not still make kits for both ends of the 98+ kats (I recall having to take a different firm's rear).

(D) If you are still using the cross-member above the front wheel as part of the brake line routing (i.e. - front brake kit uses three hoses, not two), you need to have the bike on the sidestand while bleeding the left side caliper, and it should be parked on the sidestand overnight when using the rubberband trick. Using the centerstand won't permit a clear uphill path for the air to transit.

(E) Invest in speed bleeders. I sell them cheaper than most anywhere else on the planet. These are one-way bleeder valves which will not permit air to go back into the lines and make bleeding a snap.

(F) When you replaced the pads, did you replace the piston caliper seals and clean the pistons thoroughly? It is not uncommon, especially when reusing existing seals, for the seals to unseat themselves when reassembling the caliper pistons into the body, and if the pistons were caked with debris (brake dust, etc) or if the pistons/piston-receivers were scratched or rusted, for the seal to tear itself up.

(G) The master cylinder seal can go bad, especially if using the wrong brake fluid or skimping too long on changing brake fluids.

Is there any leaking anywhere? Wipe the hoses & underside of the calipers down with a paper towel soaked in windex and then with dry paper towels. Pump up the brakes and then run a clean paper towel over the same areas -- did you find any moisture anywhere?

KNOW THIS: your brake action being soft is because of the air still in the system.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[KSKat]

Yes I have bleed the MC by pumping the system up and while holding the lever in and cracking the banjo bolts while air/fluid came out. I repeated this process three-four times. I also did the bleeding method of pumping it up and checking for air bubbles in the MC.

When bleeding the calipers (after bleeding the MC) I was adding fluid into a jar and submerging clear tubing into the fluid. I would pump the lever three-four times and then hold. I would then open the bleed screw for appx. one second by turning the bleed screw one-fourth to one-half turns.

When doing the rebuild I did replace all the seals and crush washers. I did have a problem with Galfer sending me one banjo bolt that was the incorrect thread-turn ratio (sent a 1.00 instead of the 1.25). I did not however force anything and had them send me the correct banjo, so I do not think I cross threaded anything.

The Galfer lines are a two line system for the front of the Katana so I am not using the cross tube anymore. I have already considered the possibility of a defective hose or coupling. I will work on this all day today and if the problems persist then I will contact Galfer about a replacement line. Also Cyber I was able to get a rear Galfer brake line for the 98+ Katana through CycleBrakes. The rear brake line fits fine with no clearance problems anywhere.

Another question I have is the Haynes manual I have been using for the 98+ Katana's shows a tappered ridge on the caliper fluid seal (Page 6*7 Figuge 4.13 for anyone with the book). When I installed the seals I could not see any tapper on these? Is there a certain way these install into the caliper? I ordered the new seals from RonAyers and simply took them out, coated them with new brake fluid (Valvoline SysPower) and installed (larger seal for the fluid and smaller for the front dirt seal) I thought maybe I could have an air leak around the fluid seal.

I did not rebuild the MC, the bike is a 2000 so I am a little late in replacing the fluid but I would hope the seals on the MC are still OK. The MC was empty for a few weeks while I waited for Galfer to send a new bolt (living in KS we do not get any parts in a hurry without paying extra). The only thing is the seals could have dried out, but I don't think they would in this short of time. Cyber, I also used your recomendation on the brake fluid from some other posts on this board. Thanks to everyone on the forum, the information on this site is very informative.

Cyber, would there be any advantage to the speedbleeders if I am using the Mityvac? I know they make life easier in the typical fashion of bleeding.

Thanks for all the insight, I am off to the store to stock up on more fluid and spend a Saturday with my brakes. I have to get this fixed soon, I also put new Metzler Z6's on and am anxious to get out and get them broke in.

[The CyberPoet]

Yes I have bleed the MC by pumping the system up and while holding the lever in and cracking the banjo bolts while air/fluid came out. I repeated this process three-four times. I also did the bleeding method of pumping it up and checking for air bubbles in the MC.

I've never heard of bleeding via the banjo bolts... I wouldn't think this was desirable.

When bleeding the calipers (after bleeding the MC) I was adding fluid into a jar and submerging clear tubing into the fluid. I would pump the lever three-four times and then hold. I would then open the bleed screw for appx. one second by turning the bleed screw one-fourth to one-half turns.

The secret here is getting them open and closed again while the fluid is still under pressure. Whether the pressure lasts for a second or not depends on your set-up and how far you open the bleeders. It took about 30 repeats of this cycle to get each line, caliper and master cylinder clear of all the old fluid in my case -- this is where the speed bleeders are the god-send (no lower back pain from bending over!). The other part is obviously to keep the reservior level at least 1/2 full at all times (to keep from sucking air into the system.

[When doing the rebuild I did replace all the seals and crush washers. I did have a problem with Galfer sending me one banjo bolt that was the incorrect thread-turn ratio (sent a 1.00 instead of the 1.25). I did not however force anything and had them send me the correct banjo, so I do not think I cross threaded anything.

The Galfer lines are a two line system for the front of the Katana so I am not using the cross tube anymore.

They do offer both a three and a two hose solution. I retained the OEM configuration with the three hose version.

I have already considered the possibility of a defective hose or coupling. I will work on this all day today and if the problems persist then I will contact Galfer about a replacement line. Also Cyber I was able to get a rear Galfer brake line for the 98+ Katana through CycleBrakes. The rear brake line fits fine with no clearance problems anywhere.

Cool. It may simply not have been listed in the PartsUnlimited catalog I ordered from. As it was, the catalog didn't list a Kat 600 SS rear line (any vendor), but did list a Kat 750 rear line (which fits the same) from a different vendor so I went with that.

Another question I have is the Haynes manual I have been using for the 98+ Katana's shows a tappered ridge on the caliper fluid seal (Page 6*7 Figuge 4.13 for anyone with the book). When I installed the seals I could not see any tapper on these? Is there a certain way these install into the caliper? I ordered the new seals from RonAyers and simply took them out, coated them with new brake fluid (Valvoline SysPower) and installed (larger seal for the fluid and smaller for the front dirt seal) I thought maybe I could have an air leak around the fluid seal.

There is not a direction to the piston seals. If it looks like there is in the pictures, it means their seal was already used at the time it was photographed, or they used pictures from a different bike in their manual.
As for leaking at the seals, like I said, use the paper towel trick to check for leaks...

I did not rebuild the MC, the bike is a 2000 so I am a little late in replacing the fluid but I would hope the seals on the MC are still OK. The MC was empty for a few weeks while I waited for Galfer to send a new bolt (living in KS we do not get any parts in a hurry without paying extra). The only thing is the seals could have dried out, but I don't think they would in this short of time.

The OEM MC piston seal will crack if the system is left dry for a few weeks after years of use. This seems to be aggrevated if you use a MityVac or other system to pressure-feed the brake fluid from the low end into the MC in my experience. To avoid this sort of scenario, either reinstall the OEM lines while waiting for replacement parts, or at least take the OEM line and crimp it over (& route it skywards) so you can keep fluid in the reservior to keep the MC piston seal moist. Sounds like you'll have to replace it now.

Cyber, would there be any advantage to the speedbleeders if I am using the Mityvac? I know they make life easier in the typical fashion of bleeding.

Not if you bleed from the bottom by forcing fluid up the system -- since it's an one-way valve, you can't use it with the MityVac as the feeder. If you use the MityVac as a suction source at the bottom, they still have benefit. Mostly they have benefit if you don't use a MityVac (or equiv) in general -- or if you may need to bleed out on the road. Personally, I prefer them

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[Yellow]

Yes I have bleed the MC by pumping the system up and while holding the lever in and cracking the banjo bolts while air/fluid came out. I repeated this process three-four times. I also did the bleeding method of pumping it up and checking for air bubbles in the MC.

I've never heard of bleeding via the banjo bolts... I wouldn't think this was desirable.

It's the only way that I know of that will get rid of air stuck in the MC, and I've heard of a lot of people doing it after line change, since you easily end up with large air bubbles that stick in the MC... I tried to bleed my rear caliper, but it just wouldn't build up pressure enough. Then working my way down to the caliper bleeding the banjo bolts effectively got rid of the air. Did the same thing with the front when it took forever to bleed it via the calipers, helped a lot. It makes sense to me.