Katana of the Month - August 2008 – lee3645
 

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Mechanics 101 Can't get it to run right? Find a trick to add HP?
From the first oil change to completely rebuilding the engine,
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Old 05-03-2005, 02:55 PM   #1
SurfinCR
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Default touchy bike

ok heres the laundry list.... first with history this is a 89 katana 600 engine
and its in a 88 bike so the wiring is all 88..
the engine had been banged up from what looks like a drop or something. valve cover was cracked the i replaced it a found the head needed to be tigthened since it was leaking when warmed. looks like it still may be leaking a little but not to the point it was before. number four carb had a stuck slider which i fixed. but the bike is still idling rough it ether nicely sits at 1k or it wants to idle to 2-5k when warmed up. while driving it the low end lacks then once it hits 5k it takes off, it reminds me of a 2 stroke but after giving it some gas and having it take off if i let off the gas it back fires. it also sounds like one or two of the cylinders is miss firing but not sure its got kind of a clinking noise. the more i run the bike it seems to run a little better... also i put some fuel filters in line to the carbs to add that little bit of extra protection. i was thinking that may add to the problem. also spark plus wires were replaced with msd wires and ngk caps but they are the stock coils i also think i may have cut the wires too long for some of the plugs which if memory serves would delay the ignition a second .... anyways what do you guys think?
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Old 05-03-2005, 03:31 PM   #2
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Clean the carbs.
Even after the rebuild I ended up having some of the carboration issues you discribe.

I ended up removing the F/A screws and spraying carb cleaner in there. I had a tiny scredriver so I didn't even remove the carbs.
After that the bike ran and idled great.

Longer wires would only effect the ignition if you made them from your coils to the house around the car and to the spark plugs..
Well it would effect the heat of the spark but not the timing.. :P
( you would think they would make the wires all the same length so the resistance is balanced but oddly they don't)
The added resisance of the wire will effect the voltage but not the speed.
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Old 05-03-2005, 03:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_peter
Clean the carbs.
Even after the rebuild I ended up having some of the carboration issues you discribe.

I ended up removing the F/A screws and spraying carb cleaner in there. I had a tiny scredriver so I didn't even remove the carbs.
After that the bike ran and idled great.

Longer wires would only effect the ignition if you made them from your coils to the house around the car and to the spark plugs..
Well it would effect the heat of the spark but not the timing.. :P
( you would think they would make the wires all the same length so the resistance is balanced but oddly they don't)
The added resisance of the wire will effect the voltage but not the speed.

the different lengths of the SP wire is meaningless as the resistance of difference in length would probably be .1 ohm ( or less ).


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Old 05-03-2005, 04:26 PM   #4
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actually SP wire can vary widely.
I don't know what the spec is for the Kat.
But folks sell performance wire anywhere from 50 (4 Ohms per inch) to 5000 Ohm per foot (400 Ohms per inch). In a car this is not as important as one coil will drive one plug wire (or four coils driving one wire each)
However in a motorcycle you are driving 2 plugs and wires per coil. So I would think the balance would be important. If the wires are different length going from coil to plugs one plug is getting a hotter spark.

Either way this is not SurfinCR's problem..
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Old 05-03-2005, 07:52 PM   #5
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yeah quit hijacking my thread i found out today that it still likes to leak so i dont know if that has anything to do with it. but at least with the leak if i ever get lost i can follow my trail back home
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Old 05-03-2005, 09:40 PM   #6
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have the valves ever been adjuted or the carbs synched? it may need both.
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Old 05-03-2005, 11:04 PM   #7
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neither have been done
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Old 05-04-2005, 01:03 AM   #8
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Default Re: touchy bike

Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfinCR
number four carb had a stuck slider which i fixed. but the bike is still idling rough it ether nicely sits at 1k or it wants to idle to 2-5k when warmed up.
Typical symptom of carbs contaminated with dried fuel residues. My guess is that the bike sat for a long time. Proper solution is to disassemble the carbs, clean them exceptionally thoroughly (full disassembly, removal of all plastic/rubber parts and dunking the remaining parts into a parts cleaner solution for an hour or two), followed by cleaning out the jets with spray carb cleaner & nylon bristles, then drying everything and reassembly. The sometimes-it-works-easy-solution is to add a 1/3rd of a bottle of Techron to a fresh load of high detergent gasoline and run the tank through, plus let it sit overnight with the techron-loaded fuel in the carbs; may require repeated applications (i.e. multiple gas tanks), but you'll notice a difference after a day or two after 15 miles and being parked overnight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfinCR
while driving it the low end lacks then once it hits 5k it takes off, it reminds me of a 2 stroke but after giving it some gas and having it take off if i let off the gas it back fires.
May be misjetted (wrong stage jetkit, wrong jets), or the jets may simply be clogged. After-fires (explosions out of the exhaust) on decelleration is a result of the idle fuel circuit in the carbs going too lean on decell, and is fixed by cleaning and then properly adjusting the carbs to the rest of the set-up (i.e. - matching jetting to exhaust and intake systems -- if everything is stock, just turning up the pilot screws should resolve it once the carbs are clean).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfinCR
it also sounds like one or two of the cylinders is miss firing but not sure its got kind of a clinking noise. the more i run the bike it seems to run a little better... also i put some fuel filters in line to the carbs to add that little bit of extra protection. i was thinking that may add to the problem.
Probably fouled spark plugs, a result of the poor fueling from the carbs. Replace the plugs or at least clean them thoroughly (carb cleaner, nylon bristled brush if any brush is to be used at all).
The fuel filters need to be routed so the exits are distinctly lower than the intakes (i.e. - so the filters point downhill), so fuel flows through them adequately under all conditions. If they are mounted flat, air can get around the exit of the fuel filter and starve the carbs for fuel, especially in higher-draw or low-vacuum situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfinCR
also spark plus wires were replaced with msd wires and ngk caps but they are the stock coils i also think i may have cut the wires too long for some of the plugs which if memory serves would delay the ignition a second .... anyways what do you guys think?
The difference in lengths will make no appreciable difference. Electricity travels at about the speed of light -- how much longer does it take the beam of a flashlight to travel an extra foot? On the other hand, if they are actively laying against the valve covers, then they are too long and may get damaged by heat -- either tie them up with wire ties or shorten them.

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Old 05-04-2005, 08:39 AM   #9
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Cyber brings up a good point:
I noticed the other day my local AutoZone carries a can of "dip" cleaner. Big enough for a single carb body.
If I do mine again I would go this route. A good soaking is better then a spray and you dont have to risk damaging the tiny ports using a wire.
Suggestion
For small parts use a tea holder. It is a wire mesh ball about 1 1/2 inches in dia. that is used to hold loose tea for brewing. Use it to hold clips, jets and other small parts you dont want to have to fish from the bottom of the dipping can.
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Old 05-04-2005, 11:32 AM   #10
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its funny you should mention the carb cleaner can. i actually have one sitting at home that i used for cleaning my VW bug carbs. it worked like a charm for fixing it. it even comes with a basket to hold the parts. but i must say i am a little nervous about taking it all apart i can easily deal with the one carb at a time but doing four i think i am going to try the pour in the gas tank stuff first.
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