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Need Help with adjusting Carbs/Idle?

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  • Need Help with adjusting Carbs/Idle?

    I am new to posting in KR but have been using your advice for at least a week or 2 lol. Trying to do everything as inexpensive as possible as I am broke off my *** but want to be riding sooo bad.

    Few weeks ago I went and bought a new to me 91 gsx600f.
    Person who I bought it from said that it was jetted stage 2, but supposedly there is no such thing as a stage 2 for the Katana. Its running a Vance & Hines exhaust with a Uni Filter. Thats about all I know mod wise.

    When I bought it he had been jumping it with his truck running over and over to start it. Battery was toasted, wiring harness was about 50% melted where it runs over the corner of the engine, a few other wires were melted.
    I've gone through and rebuild the wiring harness and replaced wires where needed.

    another issue was rust in the tank and the bike would only choked up, 50-100%, read up on here about electrolysis and did that treatment on the tank, didn't have the cash to coat it so I know its not permanent but it'll do for a temporary fix. While doing that I tore apart the carbs, cleaned everything out and as near as I can tell got all the passage ways cleared out. Used a lemon juice bath to soak it then took carb cleaner and wd-40 with an air compressor to make sure the circuts were clear.
    Cleaning the carbs was definatly an experiance!(I have no exp working with engines and mechanics stuff lol) I left the carbs on the rail while cleaning them so HOPEFULLY i don't need to resync them or anything.....

    The air box boots had worked their seal loose, and it looks as if at one time it was sealed with something so used epoxy and ran a bead around each boot just to make sure they were sealed up tight.

    Got everything back together but now's where I am getting stuck and don't know where to go next. After getting it all together it was a PITA to get started the first time, its like it wanted to turn over but something needed greese or something because it felt like it was hitting something. Finally turned over after i replaced the spark plugs but ran REALLY REALLY rough.

    Pulled the air box, had probably over a cup of gas in the airbox(Left on prime to long, flooded? dunno but was probably my own fault). Set my A/F screws to 2.5 turns out(I think they were at 3-3.5 beforehand). Added some more gas into the tank 1/5th full atm?

    Started up, as long as choke was on and I didn't touch the throttle(it was would bog down and die if I did). Got it warmed up and choke off, was bouncing around 1100-2k rpms, wouldn't go steady, then started reving up to 6k and sat at 6k steady as stone.(this was all without touching throttle.) gave it a rev and it dropped back to 3k. then just kinda puttered down and died. It's still starting but can't figure out what I need to change.

    Do I need to go back in and readjust my A/F Screws?
    Idle Adjustment is still all the way out at the moment.

    One last thing, It is vibrating like mad now while running. Also poping and backfiring, and saw flames out the exhaust a time or 2.

    Thanks, Arthur
    Last edited by Scobydew; 07-19-2009, 02:12 PM.
    I never knew what I was getting myself into....

  • #2
    ok you need to sinc the carbs
    someone made a post on how to make your own carb sinc tool try to find it

    then clean the air filter

    if that doesnt work then you need to clean the carbs out again .....not lemon juce ....but actual carb cleaner ....


    on that note the check your petcock so it doesnt flood the bowels and make shure the floats are working properly


    i would also change the oil in your bike since these bikes are air cooled and if you dont drive them and leave them running for too long it will burn the oil
    i think that would do it

    Comment


    • #3
      Since your bike is supposed to be jetted, I would read the following info...



      Fuel in the airbox like that means your floats are not set properly. Check those. You can verify they are not allowing too much gas to pass by with a simple test. Fill the bowls and gas lines with fuel, then try to blow through the lines. If you can, you need to reset those floats. If you can't, your no longer leaking gas there.

      You need to verify what the real jetkit installed is. Do so by getting the main jet sizes. Also verify the number of slots on the needles at the top. This will help to verify what brand jetkit you have.

      Make sure when your doing any tuning, or the bike is running, that everything is installed and all vacuum lines are hooked up or plugged.

      Krey
      93 750 Kat



      Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

      "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

      Comment


      • #4
        well, in the process of dismantling everything again, I managed to strip out one of my pilot? jets. /sigh/bonk.

        Near as I can tell the main jets are 115 and the smaller jet was a 37.5 or 32.5, having trouble telling if its a 2 or a 7. The needle had 3 spots to clip to to adjust the height.

        I'll have to pick up something to measure the float heights, I tried your simple test krey and on one of the fuel lines i could blow air, when I blew on the other a bunch of fuel came out the overflow tube.

        Since when I messed up the pilot jet I got brass shavings all over the place, going to dismantle and reclean the carbs, or at least reblow all the passage ways.

        So I have a question, where can I pick up new pilot jets, and should I stick with the same size?
        I never knew what I was getting myself into....

        Comment


        • #5
          Factory setting for your bike...

          1990 gsx600f on U.S

          Type: BST33SS

          Main Jet: 112.5

          Main Air Jet: 0.5mm

          Jet Needle
          California: 5F105
          Except California: 5F104

          Needle Jet: P-2

          Pilot Jet: 32.5

          Pilot Air Jet
          California: 1.45mm
          Except California: 1.55mm

          Pilot Screw setting: Preset

          Starter Jet (choke): 35

          Float Height: 14.6mm (+/- 1mm)


          Based on that information, it sounds like you have a "stage 1" jetkit installed. There should be no need to change or swap any of the other jets. The only recomendation would be to start the A/F screws at 2.5 (and that should be pretty close to on the money for the needed setting for them if the pilot ciruit is clean and unaltered).

          If you need to replace parts I would suggest going back to factory spec sizes (except for your mains). A good place for those (and the best price I've found for these parts) would be Waynesville Cycle Center who will ship parts directly. Call them in person, they will beat their own online prices (or any other online price I'm told).

          18999 Great Smokey Mtn Expy
          Waynesville, NC 28786-7780
          (828) 452-5831
          http://www.waynesvillecycle.com/

          BTW... when you said "stripped" the jets.. I'm assuming you mean the screw slots on the jets, and not the screw threads inside the aluminum houseing?... If so, just replacing the jet would be easy enough. Just make sure you have the right size screwdriver in the future... if it's too small, it will cause that. (did the same thing by grabbing the wrong one and figuring "eh, it will work... "

          Krey
          93 750 Kat



          Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

          "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes I did mean I stripped out the screw not the threads inside, once I figured that the top of the jet was too badly damaged to save I used a reverse threader on my drill to just back the entire thing right out, the threads are fine still. Thanks for the info on the cycle shop, i'll give them a call and once I get the parts I need get back to troubleshooting lol.
            I never knew what I was getting myself into....

            Comment


            • #7
              *UPDATE*

              ok So as of today, I got the new Jet in, got everything cleaned out and as near as I can tell it seems that all the passageways are clear when I am spraying wd40 and air through them.

              Started up bike, No Choke needed to start. Idle screw was all the way out. A/F screws all turned at 2.5 turns out

              Bike started up, was running rough, needed to keep a little gas on it from throttle to keep it running so started to turn the idle adjustment screw.
              Seems after the bike warmed up a little it started to smooth out alot. thought I was doing great, had turned the idle screw a ways and had it sitting at 1100-1500 range on and was idling good.

              Turned it off, turned it back on, woundn't idle and running rough again(this is only like 1 minute later) Also seems like the throttle hangs, I'd give it a rev and it would not come back down below 6-7k unlessi gave it a rev again then only dropped to 3-4k. Turned it off and restarted it, now it won't hold an idle at all, starts up, give it a rev, hold gas and it stays running, let go and it dies.

              I've got maybe 1/5th of a tank of gas in it right now. Dunno if this could affect it or not.

              The things I need some help with, the idle, the hanging throttle up high kinda scares me as this has only been tested in my garage and don't want it sticking when I am actually riding it lol.(I am a VERY inexperianced rider). and last, what could cause it to sound rough while running(some of the time).

              Thanks
              I never knew what I was getting myself into....

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Scobydew View Post
                *UPDATE*

                ok So as of today, I got the new Jet in, got everything cleaned out and as near as I can tell it seems that all the passageways are clear when I am spraying wd40 and air through them.

                Started up bike, No Choke needed to start. Idle screw was all the way out. A/F screws all turned at 2.5 turns out

                Bike started up, was running rough, needed to keep a little gas on it from throttle to keep it running so started to turn the idle adjustment screw.
                Seems after the bike warmed up a little it started to smooth out alot. thought I was doing great, had turned the idle screw a ways and had it sitting at 1100-1500 range on and was idling good.

                Turned it off, turned it back on, woundn't idle and running rough again(this is only like 1 minute later) Also seems like the throttle hangs, I'd give it a rev and it would not come back down below 6-7k unlessi gave it a rev again then only dropped to 3-4k. Turned it off and restarted it, now it won't hold an idle at all, starts up, give it a rev, hold gas and it stays running, let go and it dies.

                I've got maybe 1/5th of a tank of gas in it right now. Dunno if this could affect it or not.

                The things I need some help with, the idle, the hanging throttle up high kinda scares me as this has only been tested in my garage and don't want it sticking when I am actually riding it lol.(I am a VERY inexperianced rider). and last, what could cause it to sound rough while running(some of the time).

                Thanks
                Why were you spraying WD40 through it for?

                The hanging idle tells me the idle circuit is still not fully clean, and your idle is lean....

                Reclean the carbs.

                Krey
                93 750 Kat



                Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

                "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Was using WD40 because it was easy to see spraying through the passageways and I figured it would help with cleaning and blowout/burn off after the bike was running.

                  Do you know of any good diagrams that will show me the paths the different circuts take through the carbs?

                  Every single passageway that I've been able to find/locate I've blown stuff through or taken fishing line and poked it through to make sure they were clear.

                  If I can get a video up would that help with diagnostics? I seriously suck at describing whats going on lol.
                  I never knew what I was getting myself into....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Scobydew View Post
                    Was using WD40 because it was easy to see spraying through the passageways and I figured it would help with cleaning and blowout/burn off after the bike was running.

                    Do you know of any good diagrams that will show me the paths the different circuts take through the carbs?

                    Every single passageway that I've been able to find/locate I've blown stuff through or taken fishing line and poked it through to make sure they were clear.

                    If I can get a video up would that help with diagnostics? I seriously suck at describing whats going on lol.
                    At the least, pick up a can of spray carb cleaner, and use the entire can. I don't think WD40 is going to be potent enough to do what is needed in the short time it's there (if at all really... )...

                    There are some diagrams in this thread from the Gixxer forum for basically the same type carbs as yours.




                    Before going any further, I would back the "idle screw" all the way out, then just 1/2 turn engaging it back. It should run like that, and if not... something is not right still.

                    Krey
                    93 750 Kat



                    Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

                    "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      ok carbs are clean, i am pretty damn sure this time lol. SO new situation....I stumbled upon this by accident. With the gas tank off the bike, it idled great, gas on, could barely get it started. soooo, i tested the vacume tube. Off, bike starts up and idles, tube connected while bike running, bike dies. fuel cock issue?
                      I never knew what I was getting myself into....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Set to the rear is on prime.
                        Set to down is on.

                        If set to prime and she runs, all is ok.
                        If set to down which is on, and the vaccum line is disconnected and it dies, all is ok.
                        If set to down which is on, and the vaccum line is connected and it dies, not all is ok.
                        Petcock diaphragm is leaking, need a rebuild from Cyberpoet.

                        All you want to know is right here ~

                        Comment

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