[iwannadie]

Take a look at what happened to Mcguyver the other day…someone on the side claiming to have a knife almost took his bike. What if the guy really did have a knife and was crazy enough to use it.

and take a look at what the situation really was. the guy who supposedly assulted him didn't even have a knife in the first place.

here is a nice recipe for ya:

one slightly deranged street bum who is unstable and claims to have a knife.

one slightly gung-ho individual who feels everyone is out to get him and carries a gun.

street bum tries to take the bike...for whatever reason. maybe he just has a child like mind and wants to play with your toy.

gung-ho individual pulls gun on bum

bum...being unstable in the first place, has no sense of reality and moves towards gung-ho's gun....cuz it just looks so cool and he wants to play with that as well.

gung-ho shoots bum in face.

cops show up....search bum, and find no knife.

gung-ho serves time for man-slaughter.


here is another thing to ponder.....if you pull a gun on someone, you really better be ready to use it. if the assulter gets a hold of it, he will most definately use it on you....even if it is just to pistol whip your ass....if you're lucky.
and if someone does pull a knife on you, are you really ready to pull the trigger? is your wallet, your bike...or any other material object really worth having to live with the fact that you killed a man?
I think I would rather hand over my bike and wait for the insurance check than to have that in my mind for the rest of my life. but hey...that's just me. 99.9% of the time it is just theft...and they only want your money or something like that. just give it up and avoid taking it that far where someone gets shot.


geez....you yanks and your guns.

people need to stop making excuses for attackers. the 'bum' i very seriously didnt think 'wow a cool toy i should play with that'. more likely the bum thought 'hey i can trade that bike for a weeks supply of crack!'.

when you keep making excuses for attackers eventually you cant defend yourself. what if the bum killed someone would you defend him saying 'poor little guy he didnt know the end result of stabbing someone 100 times to the chest. he should be let back out into society.'

you can make up any sob story to play off what someone does as innocent if you want to. but when it hits closer to home people seem to stop making those excuses.

if someone comes at me saying he has a knife and threatens my life im shooting him. ill sleep just fine at night having done so, maybe growing up in canada makes this a non issue. someone trying to kill you is something youd only see in a movie and cant relate to having to defend your life with violence. but where i am/from its just reality and rolling over giving in isnt going to solve anything for you.

[Yellow2002Kat]

Take a look at what happened to Mcguyver the other day…someone on the side claiming to have a knife almost took his bike. What if the guy really did have a knife and was crazy enough to use it.

and take a look at what the situation really was. the guy who supposedly assulted him didn't even have a knife in the first place.

here is a nice recipe for ya:

one slightly deranged street bum who is unstable and claims to have a knife.

one slightly gung-ho individual who feels everyone is out to get him and carries a gun.

street bum tries to take the bike...for whatever reason. maybe he just has a child like mind and wants to play with your toy.

gung-ho individual pulls gun on bum

bum...being unstable in the first place, has no sense of reality and moves towards gung-ho's gun....cuz it just looks so cool and he wants to play with that as well.

gung-ho shoots bum in face.

cops show up....search bum, and find no knife.

gung-ho serves time for man-slaughter.

I hear ya Mojoe, but your recipe is missing a new ingredient. I'm gonna use the MacGyver example.

The NRA has been making great strides lately in getting laws revised. It all started in Florida.

Previously, you had a duty to retreat if you felt threatened. In other words, if the crackhead came up to me and said he had a knife w/o showing it to me, I would not be able to get off the bike and shoot him. If he brandished a knife and approached me I could shoot him in self defense because he was coming at me with a deadly weapon and I was in immediate danger, I didn't just feel threatened.

Now, you no longer have the duty to retreat. It's being commonly referred to as the "Stand Your Ground" provision. With the new law in place, said crackhead can approach me and say he has a knife. I feel threatened and I can shoot him dead on the spot. Him not having the knife is irrelevant at this point - I felt my life was in danger. That's the standard I'm now held to.

The NRAs stance is that having a duty to retreat is a good way to get shot in the back. True? I'm not so sure, but their logic (along with a very powerful lobby) is resulting in sweeping reform across the country. Since Florida adopted the "Stand Your Ground" provision in early '06 it has been passed into law in 12 other states. Law Enforcement is strongly opposed to this, but they're not having much luck fighting it.

I have carried a firearm fairly regularly over the last 14 years, but I have never had the need to use or brandish it. Of course, I've gotten into arguements and felt the urge to unholster my weapon, but I would only do so if I were going to use it. Since I knew I wouldn't use it, the weapon always stayed put.

My wife also has a CCP, but she never carries a firearm. She's one hell of a shot, but she says that she doesn't think she'd ever be able to shoot anyone if push really came to shove.

You are exactly correct in what you say - never pull a firearm unless you fully intend and need to use it. If you're just using it to scare someone away, that can really backfire on you - no pun intended

[Mojoe]

people need to stop making excuses for attackers. the 'bum' i very seriously didnt think 'wow a cool toy i should play with that'. more likely the bum thought 'hey i can trade that bike for a weeks supply of crack!'.

when you keep making excuses for attackers eventually you cant defend yourself. what if the bum killed someone would you defend him saying 'poor little guy he didnt know the end result of stabbing someone 100 times to the chest. he should be let back out into society.'

you can make up any sob story to play off what someone does as innocent if you want to. but when it hits closer to home people seem to stop making those excuses.

if someone comes at me saying he has a knife and threatens my life im shooting him. ill sleep just fine at night having done so, maybe growing up in canada makes this a non issue. someone trying to kill you is something youd only see in a movie and cant relate to having to defend your life with violence. but where i am/from its just reality and rolling over giving in isnt going to solve anything for you.

I went back and checked, and I didn't really see anywhere in my response that I was making excuse for attackers. There is NO excuse for their actions. They deserve a good ass kicking to say the least.

My point is that in many cases I think there are individuals who carry guns that are just anxious for an excuse to use it.
"hey....what do we have here? a mentally unstable bum who says he has a knife....I think I will shoot him". Many join the military for the same reason...the urge to shoot someone. I know this for a fact cuz I worked with a guy who came back from desert storm and was all disappointed cause he never got the chance. e own at least 50 guns....with a vault and all. A real "soldier". But I can see that as normal somewhat, cuz it is pretty common knowledge that overall, Americans are angry, lack trust in one another, and often feel threatened.

as for me only going by what I see in the movies.....hardly.
I have lived a colorful life. I have been around plenty of guns.....and alot of black market handguns. I ran almost 5 years with the hells angels. Not as a member, but as an "associate". I have experienced the dark side. I have stared down the barrel of a pistol. Not in a threatening situation...but a precautionary one. So I am not as "canadian" as you might think.
I have seen the what holding a gun can do to people. Not all.....but many.
So my final thoughts.....in many cases the excuse of having a gun for protection is just that...an excuse. There is a stronger force behind it. Personally, I think it is courage. Ex...joe gets challenged to a bar fight by an equally sized individual. joe doesn't have the balls to go it....so he runs. then joe cowers at home caressing his gun...dreaming how he would like to shoot the guy who embarasses him in the face. Where I come from, we call that gutless. They lack what it takes to stand their ground, so hide behind a gun. I am not saying this applies to anyone on here...but it does apply.

[iwannadie]

people need to stop making excuses for attackers. the 'bum' i very seriously didnt think 'wow a cool toy i should play with that'. more likely the bum thought 'hey i can trade that bike for a weeks supply of crack!'.

when you keep making excuses for attackers eventually you cant defend yourself. what if the bum killed someone would you defend him saying 'poor little guy he didnt know the end result of stabbing someone 100 times to the chest. he should be let back out into society.'

you can make up any sob story to play off what someone does as innocent if you want to. but when it hits closer to home people seem to stop making those excuses.

if someone comes at me saying he has a knife and threatens my life im shooting him. ill sleep just fine at night having done so, maybe growing up in canada makes this a non issue. someone trying to kill you is something youd only see in a movie and cant relate to having to defend your life with violence. but where i am/from its just reality and rolling over giving in isnt going to solve anything for you.

I went back and checked, and I didn't really see anywhere in my response that I was making excuse for attackers. There is NO excuse for their actions. They deserve a good ass kicking to say the least.

My point is that in many cases I think there are individuals who carry guns that are just anxious for an excuse to use it.
"hey....what do we have here? a mentally unstable bum who says he has a knife....I think I will shoot him". Many join the military for the same reason...the urge to shoot someone. I know this for a fact cuz I worked with a guy who came back from desert storm and was all disappointed cause he never got the chance. e own at least 50 guns....with a vault and all. A real "soldier". But I can see that as normal somewhat, cuz it is pretty common knowledge that overall, Americans are angry, lack trust in one another, and often feel threatened.

as for me only going by what I see in the movies.....hardly.
I have lived a colorful life. I have been around plenty of guns.....and alot of black market handguns. I ran almost 5 years with the hells angels. Not as a member, but as an "associate". I have experienced the dark side. I have stared down the barrel of a pistol. Not in a threatening situation...but a precautionary one. So I am not as "canadian" as you might think.
I have seen the what holding a gun can do to people. Not all.....but many.
So my final thoughts.....in many cases the excuse of having a gun for protection is just that...an excuse. There is a stronger force behind it. Personally, I think it is courage. Ex...joe gets challenged to a bar fight by an equally sized individual. joe doesn't have the balls to go it....so he runs. then joe cowers at home caressing his gun...dreaming how he would like to shoot the guy who embarasses him in the face. Where I come from, we call that gutless. They lack what it takes to stand their ground, so hide behind a gun. I am not saying this applies to anyone on here...but it does apply.

just the way you said 'street bum tries to take the bike...for whatever reason. maybe he just has a child like mind and wants to play with your toy. ' makes me think your making an excuse. if your not thats fine but it seemed like it when i read that post.

i hear your side of the arguement alot and of course theres alot of valid points. theres alot of people that should not ahve guns. but to say they are cowards or gutless because they rely on a gun isnt true or fair. you think holding a gun to someone and shooting takes less guts than punching someone?

its a weird line to draw saying its ok to beat someone up to defend yourself but not ok to shoot someone. how does having a weapon make you gutless? what if you get in an argument in a bar or whatever, the guy is your size and is about to fight you. you have no idea if he has a weapon on him, jumpiing into a fight with someone who might very well be packing is a bad idea. you have to treat anyone and everyone as if they are a serious threat when they are making a threat on your life.

guns arent for everyone thats true. but the more non criminals that have them the safer we will all be. my gun goes almost everywhere with me, never had to pull it out. but i know for a fact the gun being on my hip has diffused a few situations that would have turned bad without the gun.

[The CyberPoet]

but i know for a fact the gun being on my hip has diffused a few situations that would have turned bad without the gun.

This specifically is why I support open-carry as the only carry concept that I like -- people are polite to those who carry openly, tend to be far more rational and less prone to spontaneous outbursts of violence. If everyone carried openly (and I do mean everyone), I expect our society would operate at a peak of politeness... But that's just my belief.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[Mojoe]

all in all, I have nothing against owning a gun for protection....providing there is a valid reason for it other that just paranoia. and if one is truly responsible and in a sound state of mind, it is more acceptable.
however, just cuz you got your arse kicked in a bar fight doesn't cut it. there are other alternatives. go take a karate class or something.
speaking of which, I just think it would be a bit cooler if people took that step first before resorting to carrying a gun on them all the time.
the thing that freaks me out about guns is that when one is pulled out, emotions start running wild by both the person who is holding it, and the person it is pointed at.....and that is where mistakes can be made...costly mistakes. a gun is a serious issue, and I just can't help but wish there were less of them around. In an ideal world, there would not be guns on the civilian streets in north america.

[SKNL2]

Trouble with open -carry is that since the anti-gun lobby has begun their assault on the 2nd Amendment, the climate toward guns is that of irrational fear.

Further, when concealed carry was enacted in Florida and Texas, and probably all the other states that allow it, violent crimes decreased. Why? Because would be crooks can now never be sure that someone isn't going to blow them away. I like the idea that robbers have an added measure of hazards in the workplace.

The hysteria surrounding gun violence errupting out of anger is nothing more than media hype. I can assure you the numbers don't support it.

[iwannadie]

all in all, I have nothing against owning a gun for protection....providing there is a valid reason for it other that just paranoia. and if one is truly responsible and in a sound state of mind, it is more acceptable.
however, just cuz you got your arse kicked in a bar fight doesn't cut it. there are other alternatives. go take a karate class or something.
speaking of which, I just think it would be a bit cooler if people took that step first before resorting to carrying a gun on them all the time.
the thing that freaks me out about guns is that when one is pulled out, emotions start running wild by both the person who is holding it, and the person it is pointed at.....and that is where mistakes can be made...costly mistakes. a gun is a serious issue, and I just can't help but wish there were less of them around. In an ideal world, there would not be guns on the civilian streets in north america.

taking karate only turns the person into the weapon. killing someone with a punch can happen pretty easy. what difference then would it make if you punch someone or shot someone, either way your defending yourself.

the downside of this is the guy who thinks hes jackie chan can talk up a big game feeling comfortable he can take the other guy in a bar fight. next thing he knows he makes one to many threats and gets popped in the chest from a concealed gun.

[tory]

one slightly gung-ho individual who feels everyone is out to get him and carries a gun.

i dont think it's fair to assume everyone who carries a gun legally is a "slightly gun-ho individual who feels everyone is out to get him" you make it sound like anyone who carries a gun wants to shoot someone, and that's just not true at all on any level.

[SKNL2]

Going out looking for trouble can be dangerous no matter your chosen weapon. Being a thug isn't about guns or karate. Don't try to make it about guns or karate.

[donalson]

i own a gun... after a shooting in my next door neighbors front yard... and a drive-by the following week (both gang related) i snaged one of my father-in-laws hand-guns... thankfuly the family has been evicted and isn't here any longer... however the gun stays (in a lockbox next to my bed that takes me seconds to get into...)

i don't carry as i'm not licenced to and even if i where doubt i would most of the time...

but when it comes to guns... when it comes to it i'd rather have one and not need it rather then need one and not have one (new orleans/katrina ring a bell?)...

if it comes between somone elses life... or one of my family... it sure ain't going to be my family...

[TX_Kat600]

I'm not "gun-ho" as some of you eluded to and as I said in my previous post...if all they want is the bike....take it....insurance will cover the loss. I don't drink...I don't do drugs...and I don't think everyone is out to get me. I am at an age where I believe I make fairly sound judgment calls, and if I have an opportunity to walk away or use another form of dispute resolution I would take those avenues first. But when the sh%& hits the fan and my family or I are in harms way…you better believe I will do what I have to do to protect them and myself. Please note….I did not saying anything about personal property…property can be replaced…I said FAMILY and MYSELF…things that can not be replaced.

It’s not different than having a gun in the house…if someone comes in my house and intends to do harm…they are dead.

As for the “Stand your ground” language used (I forget who said it), that only applies to the domicile (both in FL and TX…which BTW the TX CHL is good in FL too). Anything outside the domicile, the CHL holder has a duty to retreat or use another form of dispute resolution…if both fail…and the CHL holder has no alternatives then and only then can he/she use the “threat” of deadly force (displaying the weapon) or deadly force. Here is a link to the TX CHL laws: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/ls-16.pdf

Now, CyberPoet made the most logical argument as to why one should not carry while riding…as it could cause more injury during an impact. His argument did not factor in one’s belief or position on hand guns and therefore was more relevant and persuading than all the other arguments (for or against).

Again, this is not the forum for a 2nd amendment debate…nor was I looking for anyone’s opinion as to the morality of carrying a handgun. I simply wanted to know if anyone manufactured holster (for lack of a better word) that can be hidden (and preferable locked) somewhere on the bike…through all the 2nd amendment non-sense I assume the answer is no.

Thanks for everyone input…I think I will keep my mouth shut for a while now.

[Anonymous]

You know what, i'm sick of hearing guns kill people!
BS, If I wanted to kill somebody they are going to die, regardless of gun or not. Or the situation it takes place in. Just because a person carries a gun does not make them paranoia. So what i'm saying is, and I havent chimed in until now about all the anti gun posts is, everyone has opinions just like a$$holes this isnt the place for it. lets talk about bikes.

[Mojoe]

one slightly gung-ho individual who feels everyone is out to get him and carries a gun.

i dont think it's fair to assume everyone who carries a gun legally is a "slightly gun-ho individual who feels everyone is out to get him" you make it sound like anyone who carries a gun wants to shoot someone, and that's just not true at all on any level.

hmm.....my statement said ONE individual, so how in the hell did you get that I was assuming that all individuals who carry a gun are paranoid. I also made it very clear that I have no objection to carrying a gun if it was for a reasonable reason, and that the individual was not mentally unstable or something. So if you are going to quote me, do it right, please...and not just twist it into what you wish.

Again, this is not the forum for a 2nd amendment debate…nor was I looking for anyone’s opinion as to the morality of carrying a handgun. I simply wanted to know if anyone manufactured holster (for lack of a better word) that can be hidden (and preferable locked) somewhere on the bike…through all the 2nd amendment non-sense I assume the answer is no.

Thanks for everyone input…I think I will keep my mouth shut for a while now.

you are right...this is not a forum for that debate. so when something like this subject is brought up, there is a good chance that there will be members who just don't see the sense in it. you can't expect people from say Canada or other countries who just find the whole idea of a of everyone carrying guns to be able to understand the sense of it. We all have crime as well, and there are victims to boot...but we just don't run out and arm ourselves to the teeth. we pay taxes to our goverment to do the best they can to control that. and when the day comes that you finally elect an administration who will actually look out for what's best for it's citizens at home instead of how they can control the rest of the world, you might be able to understand where we are coming from. and when that day comes, if it comes, you will truly know what it means to be a great nation in the eyes of the rest of the world...and not just by self proclomation (spelling). as it stands now, we pretty much see you as a bunch of gun-totin' folks just waiting for a shoot-out (not all of you of course. i am just referring to our views on gun control). it's 2006 for christ sakes....not the wild wild west. it just seems strange that Bush would want to fight a war on terrorism around the globe, when in fact the people he is governing terrorize each other to the point that everyone has to arm themselves to the teeth. it just doesn't seem right to me. I am not saying the government can clean it up overnight, but at least make an effort instead of adjusting the laws so people can shoot each other easier.

ps. My comments are not directed towards any individual here. They are directed at the policies on the subject. I am only practicing my right to free speech on the subject, and not to bash anyone. I am not angry or insulted or offended. I don't care who shoots who as long as you keep me and my loved ones out of it.

[Anonymous]

[quote="Mojoe"][quote="tory"]

control). it's 2006 for christ sakes....not the wild wild west. it just seems strange that Bush would want to fight a war on terrorism around the globe, when in fact the people he is governing terrorize each other

ps.
My comments are not directed towards any individual here. They are directed at the policies on the subject. I am only practicing my right to free speech on the subject, and not to bash anyone. I am not angry or insulted or offended. I don't care who shoots who as long as you keep me and my loved ones out of it.

No your comments are pretty clear.
Your anti American or anti American goverment.