[FloridaKat]

Here's the scoop on Castrol GPS vs. R4 vs. Mobil 1 MX4T vs. Mobil 1 Racing 4T

Castrol GPS is a synthetic based motorcycle oil. Per Castrol, it is NOT a full synthetic and per API guidelines it is at least 30% synthetic compounds.

Castrol R4 is a fully synthetic 4 stroke motorcycle oil.

From what I could tell on the product data sheets, the real difference between these 2 oils was the low Temperature (ºC) cranking viscosity, cP typical
5150 for the R4 vs. 7000 for the GPS (a delta of 5 degrees C between the 2).

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/multipleproductsection.do?categoryId=9004235&contentId=7007568

Mobil 1 MX4T WAS a fully synthetic 4 stroke motorcycle oil. It is no longer being made under that label. The new label is Mobil 1 Racing 4T (or 2T for 2 stroke cycles).

How did I find this out? My local Suzuki stealership told me that Wal-Mart pulled all the Mobil 1 MX4T off the shelves because of quality problems. I spoke to Mobile directly and they said that they only changed the name of the product; the formula has not been changed.

So.....I ended up getting 3 more quarts of Mobil 1 MX4T (at Autozone @ $7.99/qt.) to do the job. Whew!

[The CyberPoet]

Castrol GPS is a synthetic based motorcycle oil. Per Castrol, it is NOT a full synthetic and per API guidelines it is at least 30% synthetic compounds.

I'm curious where you pulled this info and whether it's still up-to-date (their US website isn't). Last time I spoke with Castrol directly, they said all their motorcycle products in the 10w40 category had all gone fully synth (including ACT/Evo), and the only mineral remains in the MC oil category was 20w50 of some product lines... Then again, manufacturers are perfectly likely to change their formulations upon occassion... I haven't spoken with them in about a year.

Mobil 1 MX4T WAS a fully synthetic 4 stroke motorcycle oil. It is no longer being made under that label. The new label is Mobil 1 Racing 4T (or 2T for 2 stroke cycles).

I originally suspected that your dealer got his information from the wrong place (off-shore). Mobil has been offering Mobil Racing 4T (15w50), Mobil Extra 4T (15w50 for sport-touring apps) and Mobil Super 4T (20w50) in Australia & Europe for a number of years now...
According to their US website: "Mobil 1 Racing 4T 15W-50 is marketed specifically for Triumph motorcycles. Another choice is Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50, which is designed for motorcycle requirements and may be more widely available than Mobil 1 Racing 4T 15W-50."
I'll have to ask my contact at Mobil TechSupport if they are planning on migrating to that same naming scheme here, and if the formulation will be the same as those offered in the other countries...

UPDATE: Just got off the phone with my Exxon/Mobil guy at their tech-support department and he sez... "It's just a name change in the USA. The product formulation remains the same, including the 10w40 weight, except for special batches we may produce specifically for triumph to their specs."

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[FloridaKat]

Last time I spoke with Castrol directly, they said all their motorcycle products in the 10w40 category had all gone fully synth (including ACT/Evo)

Then at ~$16 for a 4L jug, it's by far the best deal out there.

Basically, I compared the labels on the GPS and R4 in addition to the USA website. But I figure 2 consistent sources should be enough to tell me if the product is synthetic based or fully synthetic. Perhaps they are trying to rotate stock as well?

IMHO, a "major" oil supplier of motor oils that doesn't update their USA website makes me highly suspect of their product(s).

One curious note is that I compared the cold cranking velocity (cP) numbers of MX4T vs. R4.

MX4T = 2900 @ -20C
GPS = 7000 @ -25C
R4 = 5150 @ -30C

If I'm reading this correctly, the MX4T provides less friction while the bike is cold (and perhaps throughout the entire operating range).

[The CyberPoet]

If I'm reading this correctly, the MX4T provides less friction while the bike is cold (and perhaps throughout the entire operating range).

If your bike reaches -30C here in Florida, I'll come over to get the fire going and keep the Mrs. warm...

Look at the HTHS values as a better indication of what protection the oil will actually afford the bike.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[notec]

So, normal car oil is what you guys are using??? I was always told that dino oil was bad for wet clutches??? Or is the clutch different in this bike, compared to my old Virago??
Dont mind the newbie questions

[FloridaKat]

If I'm reading this correctly, the MX4T provides less friction while the bike is cold (and perhaps throughout the entire operating range).

If your bike reaches -30C here in Florida, I'll come over to get the fire going and keep the Mrs. warm...

Look at the HTHS values as a better indication of what protection the oil will actually afford the bike.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

That is probably an ASTM standard (-20 to -30 range) for used for testing under extreme conditions.

Notec - These are motorcycle specific oils. BTW...you have a shweeeeet looking ride there!

[notec]

Oh, ok.......On my previous bike I always used Yamalube....but that gets pretty pricey after a while.

[The CyberPoet]

So, normal car oil is what you guys are using??? I was always told that dino oil was bad for wet clutches??? Or is the clutch different in this bike, compared to my old Virago??
Dont mind the newbie questions

There's nothing wrong with dino oil or synth oil in terms of wet-clutches, as long as you pay attention to the specifications -- API SJ/SL/SM and any API oil with the ring marked "energy conserving" should never be used in a bike that originally called for API SF/SG or API SH grade motor oils. Since car oils have migrated to the newer API categories, that leaves us only motorcycle-specific oils that still meet the API SF/SG category most Japanese wet-clutch applications call for (including all the Katana's built to date).

The simple picture version of the advice:


Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[skotty]

Is it true that, if you start using fully synthetic, you should not go back to non-synthetic? A guy at the local motorcycle store told me this, dunno weather its true or not. I am currently using semi-synthetic Suzuki oil.

[The CyberPoet]

Is it true that, if you start using fully synthetic, you should not go back to non-synthetic? A guy at the local motorcycle store told me this, dunno weather its true or not. I am currently using semi-synthetic Suzuki oil.

That's utter BS. Functionally, they are intermixable and interchangable, as long as you realize that some of the benefits of the synthetic won't be there for a dino oil.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[skotty]

Just as I thought!

[FloridaKat]

Is it true that, if you start using fully synthetic, you should not go back to non-synthetic? A guy at the local motorcycle store told me this, dunno weather its true or not. I am currently using semi-synthetic Suzuki oil.

Skotty - Synthetic oils can cause problems with older seals which are prone to leakage. As long as the vehicle or equipment in question is in sound mechanical condition then using synthetic oils should not be an issue.

WRT to your Suzuki semi-synthetic oil....

A semi-synthetic oil (also called synthetic blend) is a blend of mineral oil with no more than 30% synthetic oil. They are designed to provide many of the benefits of synthetic oil without matching the cost of pure synthetic oil.

CP - My Mobile 1 MX4T containers do not have any API certification/integration logo(s). I guess the Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (JASO or JASO-MA, for motorcycles), logo implies it can co-mingle with an API approved oil since JASO standards include the following requirements:
1. Quality rating: from API SE and above
2. Required physical and chemical characteristics: low sulfur residue, low volatility, low foaming, stable viscosity at high temperature and high speed...
3. Sufficient friction for clutch performance

As far as I know, JASO MA is the only set of standards for lubricant that is accepted by Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha.

I'm still very curious about your comments on Castrol ActEvo 10w40 being fully synthetic. Can you please try to confirm with your source? If it's really true, then I 'm going to buy hoards of 4L jugs.

[The CyberPoet]

CP - My Mobile 1 MX4T containers do not have any API certification/integration logo(s).

Hmmm... never really looked closely, but their website does say that's its API SG/SH (reference page).

As far as I know, JASO MA is the only set of standards for lubricant that is accepted by Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha.

My owner's manual specifically lists API SF/SG and says nothing about JASO-MA. I prefer JASO-MA (for technical reasons -- evaluation of the actual specs tells me JASO-MA spec oils are inherently best-of-the-best for our bikes by definition). Q: does your owner's manual say anything about JASO-MA?

I'm still very curious about your comments on Castrol ActEvo 10w40 being fully synthetic. Can you please try to confirm with your source? If it's really true, then I 'm going to buy hoards of 4L jugs.

He's not in today, but I'll try to remember to check next week.
I know their website lists their ACT/Evo VTwin as being synthetic (Castrol Reference Page), although it doesn't say the same about their standard ACT/Evo. WebBikeWorld does though: reference
Or just send an email to [email protected]

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[FloridaKat]

Hmmm... never really looked closely, but their website does say that's its API SG/SH (reference page).

They do have text saying API SG, but I guess I was looking for a logo (which is usually a registered trademark).

It's kind of like that town in China specifically named Usa. When they labeled their products for export as "Made in USA", I looked at it as deceptive. A certification logo has more credibility (but we all know can be duplicated).

My owner's manual specifically lists API SF/SG and says nothing about JASO-MA. I prefer JASO-MA (for technical reasons -- evaluation of the actual specs tells me JASO-MA spec oils are inherently best-of-the-best for our bikes by definition). Q: does your owner's manual say anything about JASO-MA?

I totally agree that JASO-MA has better specifications and is so far the premier oil. My owner's manual also lists Suzuki performance 4 motor oil or an oil which is rated SF or SG under the API service classification (recommended 10W40).

He's not in today, but I'll try to remember to check next week.
I know their website lists their ACT/Evo VTwin as being synthetic (Castrol Reference Page), although it doesn't say the same about their standard ACT/Evo. WebBikeWorld does though: reference
Or just send an email to [email protected]
Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

Both websites you show have the Act-Evo VTwin is a synthetic based oil (not a full synthetic). Perhaps you interpreted that Act-Evo VTwin is a full synthetic? A synthetic based oil is only partially synthetic (~30%).

That is why when you said Act-Evo in the 10W40 format is a full sythetic oil, I was confused. According to Castrol's USA website, only the R4 is fully synthetic. Maybe I'm confused (wouldn't be the first time this day).

[The CyberPoet]

Both websites you show have the Act-Evo VTwin is a synthetic based oil (not a full synthetic). Perhaps you interpreted that Act-Evo VTwin is a full synthetic? A synthetic based oil is only partially synthetic (~30%).

I was under the belief that since the FTC/court decision concerning the definition of "synthetic" in the phrase "synthetic motor oils" in the USA, it was impossible to tell if a synthetic was dino-based synthetic (filtration/chemical-recombination synthetic) or fully carbon-atom-upwards synthetic (ground-up synthetic), and both qualified as long as the effective chemical structure results (synthetic = not occurring in nature) were identical (i.e. that the oil molecules had an uniform homogeneous chain length at outset without any shorter/longer chains in the mix).

Or maybe I'm just tired (did party heavy last night with the college students next door) and not thinking real straight...

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet