Hard Starting

[TripleKing]

When I first rescued by Kat in November 2012 from an abusive owner, the one good thing about it was that it started easily. Last spring I had the crazy idea I should lubricate moving parts like controls. I then lubed the choke lever on the bar. As expected, it moved more smoothly. However, coincidentally or not, the Kat became harder to start. I also noticed that when I add a few ounces of Seafoam to the fuels (too keep the carbs clean), the Kat becomes even harder to start. Has anyone else had problems with a hard to start Kat? Once it starts, it runs wonderfully and carbs were recently adjusted and synched (were not far off at all), but no difference in starting.

[Kreylyn]

When I first rescued by Kat in November 2012 from an abusive owner, the one good thing about it was that it started easily. Last spring I had the crazy idea I should lubricate moving parts like controls. I then lubed the choke lever on the bar. As expected, it moved more smoothly. However, coincidentally or not, the Kat became harder to start. I also noticed that when I add a few ounces of Seafoam to the fuels (too keep the carbs clean), the Kat becomes even harder to start. Has anyone else had problems with a hard to start Kat? Once it starts, it runs wonderfully and carbs were recently adjusted and synched (were not far off at all), but no difference in starting.

A test for you...


Try starting the bike with no choke at all. Then, as the starter is turning the motor over slowly pull the choke lever. Stop when it starts.


Is the choke lever all the way or only partial?


You might be in a situation where your adding too much fuel with full choke. You can further test this by opening choke all the way, then as you turn the starter over very slightly turn the throttle. VERY slightly. If it start when you turn the throttle then yes, it's overly rich with full choke.


Choke is not an on/off only setup. Sometimes only 1/4 to 1/2 is needed.


Krey

[Purplehaze]

Another thing you might want to consider although it's not what you're describing:

Is your Kat garaged? Has it been rained on recently?

I'd found that my PO botched my spark wires with some Auto-lite garbage as a replacement. In the interim I'd had to go and snip back the wires to restore full voltage as they were a tad corroded at the end. That isn't a hard job, either. 10 minutes, including taking the fuel tank off and wiggling the petcock past the left fairing (loosening it a bit)

[TripleKing]

The Kat is garage kept. It has not been in the rain at all since I have owned it. As for choke position, yes it does start more easily when the choke is only 1/4 or 1/2 open, but never starts easily after it has been sitting for a few hours. Sometimes it helps to crack the throttle, but one time that led to a very loud backfire which nearly blew me off my seat (the shock of it that is).

That battery is also brand new and fully charged. Cranking is very strong.

[subforry]

On my GS850 the gas evaporates out of the carbs like crazy. If it sits for over a week then I would have to crank it a lot. I usually turn the petcock to prime which is easy on that bike.

If it is worse when the bike has sat a few days, then maybe the fuel level in the carb bowls is low.

[Kreylyn]

The Kat is garage kept. It has not been in the rain at all since I have owned it. As for choke position, yes it does start more easily when the choke is only 1/4 or 1/2 open, but never starts easily after it has been sitting for a few hours. Sometimes it helps to crack the throttle, but one time that led to a very loud backfire which nearly blew me off my seat (the shock of it that is).

That battery is also brand new and fully charged. Cranking is very strong.

Okay, so here is what you need to check now.


Remove the hardware so that you can lift/remove the gas tank.
Before pulling it off the bike, set it to prime for a min or so, and then turn it back off.
Remove the fuel line and set tank to the side.
Wipe off the fuel line then blow on it hard.


Can you move any air or hear any gurgling?


If yes, your have a fuel leak in the carbs. Could be the orings at the needle seats, or the float needles for what ever reason.


Krey

[elsueco]

Is this something you noticed happening immediately after lubing the cables, or did you just start noticing it around that time?

My bike has always been a bit difficult to start, requiring 5-10 seconds of cranking or so. That is until I changed the spark plugs.

The old plugs looked just fine, but when I put fresh plugs in the bike, it started on the first or second crank and felt like a new bike. That was 4 months/1,300 miles ago though, and it's now back to being difficult. I'm thinking about pulling and cleaning the plugs.

[TripleKing]

Hard starting

Is this something you noticed happening immediately after lubing the cables, or did you just start noticing it around that time?

My bike has always been a bit difficult to start, requiring 5-10 seconds of cranking or so. That is until I changed the spark plugs.

The old plugs looked just fine, but when I put fresh plugs in the bike, it started on the first or second crank and felt like a new bike. That was 4 months/1,300 miles ago though, and it's now back to being difficult. I'm thinking about pulling and cleaning the plugs.

Immediately after I lubed the cable and lever. If the bike is warm and the choke is off, it starts right away.


Plugs have about 600 miles on them.

[numus]

Immediately after I lubed the cable and lever. If the bike is warm and the choke is off, it starts right away.


Plugs have about 600 miles on them.

Is there the possibility you stretched/broke the cable? I had this happen on mine. On the left side of the bike (I believe below and to the left of the fuel petcock) is where the enricher (some call it a choke I guess) is at.... With it fully closed, push on it to make sure it is fully in, open it up all the way and pull on it to make sure it is open all the way. I found mine wouldn't open up the entire way even with it fully opened. Replaced the cable and fixed the problem.


Also as a side note, check the fuel filter. Mine was literally melted (mixture of ethanol and engine heat I was told) and started to leak, causing it to be empty if it sat for a couple days and forcing me to use prime to refill it.

[TripleKing]

The Kat would not start at all. After about 10 mins of on and off cranking, almost catching a few times, it let loose a shotgun blast of a backfire out the left pipe or airbox. It was deafening!

Cable might be stretched, but it is not broken. Moving it definitely Haas an effect. When the bike is running, moving the choke has a profound effect on idle speed.

[numus]

The Kat would not start at all. After about 10 mins of on and off cranking, almost catching a few times, it let loose a shotgun blast of a backfire out the left pipe or airbox. It was deafening!

What left pipe? If it is coming from the airbox it is probably a valve issue. If it is coming from the exhaust it is probably rich. Try starting it with half or full throttle.


The lever you lubed on the left side isn't actually a choke. Its an enricher and it enriches the gas level (instead of choking the air supply which a choke does). The throttle increases the air level.

[TripleKing]

I know that it adds extra fuel. Using throttle makes it worse and increases the occurrence of backfire.

[numus]

I know that it adds extra fuel. Using throttle makes it worse and increases the occurrence of backfire.

Probably because it finally has enough air to detonate at all. Detonation has 3 requirements, Fuel Oxygen and Ignition.

[TripleKing]

Rich

Probably because it finally has enough air to detonate at all. Detonation has 3 requirements, Fuel Oxygen and Ignition.

If rich was the problem, starting it with little or no choke should work or work better than full choke, but it does not make much of difference. I think the problem is in the choke/enrichening system. I will look at it tonight

[TripleKing]

Now this is getting irritating. My son added about a gallon of fuel to dilute the Seafoam (3/4 of a tank now). I tried starting and after the second series of cranks it backfired so loud it made my ears ring. I then tried so starting fluid ND it struggled and finally started. Now I am thinking it is lean. I sprayed some carb cleaner on the choke lever on the crab and the idle picked up. Now I am thinking air leak at the boots. Sure enough all four were loose. I tightened them up and the bike settles into a very nice level idle. I let it run for about six or seven minutes after it had warmed up. I the. Shut it off. I went to restart immediately and she will not catch. I tried stair v fluid again, but nothing doing. I am afraid to keep cranking as I don't want another backfire. My right ear is still hurt b 30 minutes after the fact.