Front brake line/pad change!!!!little help??

[blkpitbull]

Ok, let me say that I searched, and as many questions I have it wasnt worth the time!!

First let me say Im going to change my lines and pads soon!!!

1-I want to get goodrige front lines!! Good, bad ?
2-I am thinking of the EBC HH pads..Any negative comments about there
stopping ability. Good choice??

Thats all for the products.
Now I wanna talk/ask about the procedure of doing this job!!! I know it cant be hard and thats not why im asking. But some of you have done this and have found the easiest ways of doing this!! Maybe a link or site!!!?

My questions are.

-Do I first put the pads in then change the lines?? Any perticular order?
-Will a speedbleeder help??

I pretty much wanna have all tha knowledge and little tricks so that this swap goes smoooooth!! Cause Ive heard of tons of horror stories about trying to bleed front motorcycle brake lines....

Im not mechanically dumb, I know I can do this, I just wanna be completely informed before I start.......BRAKES ARE IMPORTANT TO ME!!! LOL
Thanks for any help/knowledge

Todd

[Black_peter]

Todd,

There are some threads on changing lines..

IMO

clean and rebuild calipers.
Install new pads.
Install new lines all at once..
Reverse bleed the system to fill..

Stock up on brake fluid as you will use up a bit.

Goodridge lines I think are good quality.
In fact I think they come in colors now!
Mine installed in the front OK..
Rear one took some modifications/adjustment.

[The CyberPoet]

Re: Front brake line/pad change!!!!little help??

1-I want to get goodrige front lines!! Good, bad ?

Good quality, reasonable price.

2-I am thinking of the EBC HH pads..Any negative comments about there stopping ability. Good choice??

As long as you don't live at the top of a mountain. They stopped really fast/hard (enough that you may easily get caught out the first time they really bite after bedding in all the way), but generate a lot of heat -- which is fine for most riders, but not desirable if you are constantly on the brakes (such as short-track track-days or going down lots of mountain curves).

Now I wanna talk/ask about the procedure of doing this job!!! I know it cant be hard and thats not why im asking. But some of you have done this and have found the easiest ways of doing this!! Maybe a link or site!!!?

There are details here on KR.
The easiest way I've found is to use a compressed air source to push the pistons out (I used a bicycle foot pump).
Scotchbrite to clean the pistons without scratching them (1200 grit emory cloth in any spots the scotchbrite doesn't do it).
New seals, new fluid.
Never reuse the crush washers in the brake system (one-time item; new hoses should come with new crush washers).
Never put brake fluid that's been open for more than a day into the system (it can be used as the cleaning fluid for the caliper rebuild)
Recommend refill with Castrol GT LMA brake fluid (clear).

-Do I first put the pads in then change the lines?? Any perticular order?
-Will a speedbleeder help??

Wrap the lower 1/3rd of the wheel with aluminum foil (keeps the brake fluid off) and have some rags handy. Also wrap fairing under the reservior with aluminum foil (same reason).

Unbolt the hose at the caliper, fold it up and zip-tie it to the handlebar for now (keeps the fluid in the reservior, so the seals don't dry out if this takes longer than a day or two).

Unbolt the caliper from the forks, remove, then remove pads.

Pre-98: reassemble the caliper off the bike. 98+ skips this step.

Pump air into the caliper where the hose fitting was to press the caliper pistons out all the way. If one side or one piston is binding, you may need to clamp the other side.

Pre-98: disassemble the caliper again.

Remove the pistons the rest of the way, preferably without using any metal tools that could mar them.

Drop all the parts into a container filled with brake fluid (old brake fluid works).

Clean the rotor at this point -- thoroughly. Brake cleaner and/or windex and paper towels -- get every bit of crud off of them. Caution: do not force brake cleaner under pressure into the gap around the front wheel bearings, or it will eat away the grease.

Check rotors for minimum width, warping, etc., replace as needed.

Remove the seals from the pistons. If you're going to reuse the seals, be careful and lay them aside.

Take a piston, scotchbrite, clean off anything that isn't shiny metal. Spray down with brake cleaner. Repeat as necessary. 1200 grit emory cloth if the scotchbrite isn't doing it, but only lightly. If any pitting is found from just in front of the first seal groove back to the base of the piston, replace piston.

Examine interior of caliper for rust, debris. Clean/scrub/etc as needed. Spray out with brake cleaner, let dry. If any pitting is found in the passage the piston seals travel in, replace caliper (rare, but can happen from damages).

Put everything back in the brake fluid.

Get out new seals if you're using them, and put them on the pistons.

Set the pistons back in the calipers.

Using a C-clamp or wood-working clamp, slowly push the piston back into the caliper, making sure the seals don't rotate or jump out of their grooves, and that you are pushing the piston(s) in flat (a piece of wood across multiple pistons works well to keep them more even).

Pour out all your cleaning brake fluid (gets recycled with your motor oil -- dump it in your oil drain pan or into an empty brake fluid container), and reassemble caliper on the bike (pre-98, replace seal between caliper halves at this point).

If you are going to be using a SpeedBleeder, install it now.
Remember that bleeders (both stock and SpeedBleeders) take only about 6.5 ft-lbs of pressure to seat properly -- one finger pressure on a tiny box wrench. Lots of people strip theirs at this point by being too enthousiastic.

Using a syringe or tiny funnel, pre-fill the caliper with fresh brake fluid (bleeder[s] open at first, then bleeder closed)

If replacing hoses:
Attach new hose at caliper end if replacing the hoses. Otherwise replace just the crush washer and reinstall the old hose.
Repeat all steps with other front caliper.
Unfold old hoses and let reservior run dry.
Unbolt old hoses. Attach new hoses everywhere except at reservior.
Using a syringe, pre-fill upper hoses with fresh brake fluid.
Attach hose(s) at reservior.
Fill reservior.
Bleed system (multiple ways -- this is where I use the SpeedBleeders, others use a MityVac, or just time & patience & an assistant and gravity), never allowing the reservior to be more than 1/2 empty.

Spray down calipers and rotors with brake cleaner to remove any excess brake fluid, allow to dry.
Check level on reservior, fill as needed, seal up.
Pump up the brakes. Check for leaking brake fluid at any location (use a paper towel and wipe over surfaces to check -- you may find some on the paper towel your eyes' didn't spot on the bottom of the caliper, etc).
No leaks? Good. Recheck the reservior level and top off as needed.
Remove aluminum foil barriers.
Make note to self to buy Cyber a drink or a meal.

Now drive carefully and test your brakes. If you replaced the pads, be very careful for the first 100 stops or so, as they can suddenly bite unexpectedly.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[woobie]

To give speedbleeders(that CP sells) a product plug, if you're going through the trouble of replacing everything else, you might as well spend the extra $30(?) and get a set of speedbleeders.

That way this time next year you can easily change your brake fluid by your self without the normal hassles of bleeding front brakes.

[blkpitbull]

Re: Front brake line/pad change!!!!little help??

1-I want to get goodrige front lines!! Good, bad ?

Good quality, reasonable price.

2-I am thinking of the EBC HH pads..Any negative comments about there stopping ability. Good choice??

As long as you don't live at the top of a mountain. They stopped really fast/hard (enough that you may easily get caught out the first time they really bite after bedding in all the way), but generate a lot of heat -- which is fine for most riders, but not desirable if you are constantly on the brakes (such as short-track track-days or going down lots of mountain curves).

Now I wanna talk/ask about the procedure of doing this job!!! I know it cant be hard and thats not why im asking. But some of you have done this and have found the easiest ways of doing this!! Maybe a link or site!!!?

There are details here on KR.
The easiest way I've found is to use a compressed air source to push the pistons out (I used a bicycle foot pump).
Scotchbrite to clean the pistons without scratching them (1200 grit emory cloth in any spots the scotchbrite doesn't do it).
New seals, new fluid.
Never reuse the crush washers in the brake system (one-time item; new hoses should come with new crush washers).
Never put brake fluid that's been open for more than a day into the system (it can be used as the cleaning fluid for the caliper rebuild)
Recommend refill with Castrol GT LMA brake fluid (clear).

-Do I first put the pads in then change the lines?? Any perticular order?
-Will a speedbleeder help??

Wrap the lower 1/3rd of the wheel with aluminum foil (keeps the brake fluid off) and have some rags handy. Also wrap fairing under the reservior with aluminum foil (same reason).

Unbolt the hose at the caliper, fold it up and zip-tie it to the handlebar for now (keeps the fluid in the reservior, so the seals don't dry out if this takes longer than a day or two).

Unbolt the caliper from the forks, remove, then remove pads.

Pre-98: reassemble the caliper off the bike. 98+ skips this step.

Pump air into the caliper where the hose fitting was to press the caliper pistons out all the way. If one side or one piston is binding, you may need to clamp the other side.

Pre-98: disassemble the caliper again.

Remove the pistons the rest of the way, preferably without using any metal tools that could mar them.

Drop all the parts into a container filled with brake fluid (old brake fluid works).

Clean the rotor at this point -- thoroughly. Brake cleaner and/or windex and paper towels -- get every bit of crud off of them. Caution: do not force brake cleaner under pressure into the gap around the front wheel bearings, or it will eat away the grease.

Check rotors for minimum width, warping, etc., replace as needed.

Remove the seals from the pistons. If you're going to reuse the seals, be careful and lay them aside.

Take a piston, scotchbrite, clean off anything that isn't shiny metal. Spray down with brake cleaner. Repeat as necessary. 1200 grit emory cloth if the scotchbrite isn't doing it, but only lightly. If any pitting is found from just in front of the first seal groove back to the base of the piston, replace piston.

Examine interior of caliper for rust, debris. Clean/scrub/etc as needed. Spray out with brake cleaner, let dry. If any pitting is found in the passage the piston seals travel in, replace caliper (rare, but can happen from damages).

Put everything back in the brake fluid.

Get out new seals if you're using them, and put them on the pistons.

Set the pistons back in the calipers.

Using a C-clamp or wood-working clamp, slowly push the piston back into the caliper, making sure the seals don't rotate or jump out of their grooves, and that you are pushing the piston(s) in flat (a piece of wood across multiple pistons works well to keep them more even).

Pour out all your cleaning brake fluid (gets recycled with your motor oil -- dump it in your oil drain pan or into an empty brake fluid container), and reassemble caliper on the bike (pre-98, replace seal between caliper halves at this point).

If you are going to be using a SpeedBleeder, install it now.
Remember that bleeders (both stock and SpeedBleeders) take only about 6.5 ft-lbs of pressure to seat properly -- one finger pressure on a tiny box wrench. Lots of people strip theirs at this point by being too enthousiastic.

Using a syringe or tiny funnel, pre-fill the caliper with fresh brake fluid (bleeder[s] open at first, then bleeder closed)

If replacing hoses:
Attach new hose at caliper end if replacing the hoses. Otherwise replace just the crush washer and reinstall the old hose.
Repeat all steps with other front caliper.
Unfold old hoses and let reservior run dry.
Unbolt old hoses. Attach new hoses everywhere except at reservior.
Using a syringe, pre-fill upper hoses with fresh brake fluid.
Attach hose(s) at reservior.
Fill reservior.
Bleed system (multiple ways -- this is where I use the SpeedBleeders, others use a MityVac, or just time & patience & an assistant and gravity), never allowing the reservior to be more than 1/2 empty.

Spray down calipers and rotors with brake cleaner to remove any excess brake fluid, allow to dry.
Check level on reservior, fill as needed, seal up.
Pump up the brakes. Check for leaking brake fluid at any location (use a paper towel and wipe over surfaces to check -- you may find some on the paper towel your eyes' didn't spot on the bottom of the caliper, etc).
No leaks? Good. Recheck the reservior level and top off as needed.
Remove aluminum foil barriers.
Make note to self to buy Cyber a drink or a meal.

Now drive carefully and test your brakes. If you replaced the pads, be very careful for the first 100 stops or so, as they can suddenly bite unexpectedly.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

Thank you very much cyber!!!!

Good info!

Todd

[The CyberPoet]

I forgot two things:

Clean (or replace) the rods the pad backing plates ride on thoroughly (this is the cause of most brake squeel); AND
for 98+ front calipers, put high-temp synthetic brake grease under the rubber boot for the main rod that the non-piston'd caliper half slides on (you should be able to find a little packet of the stuff for 25 cents to a buck at any auto parts store).

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[Black_peter]

Re: Front brake line/pad change!!!!little help??

Never reuse the crush washers in the brake system (one-time item; new hoses should come with new crush washers).

+1 so as an added tip assemble the whole system first.
That is attach the calipers, mount the Master cylinder,
connect the lines but do NOT tighten the hose ends.

Make sure they run down to the calipers right.

Make sure you have good slack in the lines.

Make sure there are no twists.

Make sure the fork can travel fully without any funny business.

The lines run from the calipers to the MC..
with only two connection points it is essential they are connected right.
They are not marked "caliper end" etc..
Also at the MC the lines are stacked up. Make sure you have them the right way. The stock lines on my pre 98 were totally different!
They had swivel connections that allowed any twists to be fixed at the
caliper. Goodridge lines do not twist! (higher $$ ones do though)

Wrap the lower 1/3rd of the wheel with aluminum foil (keeps the brake fluid off) and have some rags handy. Also wrap fairing under the reservior with aluminum foil (same reason).

Unbolt the hose at the caliper, fold it up and zip-tie it to the handlebar for now (keeps the fluid in the reservior, so the seals don't dry out if this takes longer than a day or two).

IMO
Unbolt the MC, calipers and hose splitter and if possible (it was on my Pre)
take the whole mess to the bench.

Using a syringe, pre-fill upper hoses with fresh brake fluid.

I like the method of fulling the lines from the bleeder up to the MC using a syringe and a bit of hose..

Attach hose(s) at reservior.
Fill reservior.

Another tip.
right before completely tightening the connection at the MC;
Slightly squeeze the lever allowing a tiny amount of fluid to
seep out then tighten the connection.
This will help prevent the MC from having a bubble that I
found impossible to bleed out (untill I loosened the lines and
squeezed the lever!)

Also: The connection at the MC will have two lines.
Extra care is required to make sure they behave wile tightening them

Make note to self to buy Cyber a drink or a meal.

=-= The CyberPoet

[The CyberPoet]

Re: Front brake line/pad change!!!!little help??

The lines run from the calipers to the MC..
with only two connection points it is essential they are connected right.
They are not marked "caliper end" etc..
Also at the MC the lines are stacked up. Make sure you have them the right way. The stock lines on my pre 98 were totally different!
They had swivel connections that allowed any twists to be fixed at the
caliper. Goodridge lines do not twist! (higher $$ ones do though)

The vendor makes two different kits, one that retains the stock center splitter (3 hoses; only has a single connector to the master cylinder) and one that uses two hoses and goes caliper to master cylinder on both sides. I have the three-hose set-up on the front of my Kat.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[Anonymous]

Honestly, buy a Haynes manual.

[Black_peter]

Cyber...
If I lay my hands on a set of calipers I plan to
take pics of the break down and rebuild..
Can I use your text?

[The CyberPoet]

Cyber...
If I lay my hands on a set of calipers I plan to
take pics of the break down and rebuild..
Can I use your text?

Actually, I already started writing up the webpage... Let's collaborate

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[hellcamp]

Cyber...
If I lay my hands on a set of calipers I plan to
take pics of the break down and rebuild..
Can I use your text?

Actually, I already started writing up the webpage... Let's collaborate

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

Any progress on this ?

[Black_peter]

On this?

http://www.katriders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=25670

[hellcamp]

Danke schön.
How did I miss something that has been stickied :

[waveman]

OK then, how about just swapping out the front pads . Do I just remove the calipers , clips that hold the pads use a c-clamp w/ some wood so no scoreing happens to retract the pistons and replace pads ? Grease up rods ? Is that the proper sequence for just replacing the pads ?