Good Deal on tires?

[Cale_Kat]

I'm new to motorcycling and I don't know much about tires but I can personally vouch for this seller. It looks like a good deal on replacement tires.

Fronts for a +98 (fits pre-98?):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/IRC-TIRES-SP-11-FRONT-MOTORCYCLE-120-70ZR17-NEW-SP11_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34284QQitemZ4626397830QQrdZ1

I don't know if he has more rears, it might be worth contacting him to find out.

[ZukiFred]

Personaly I would not buy them, I only have 2 tires so I won't go cheap on them. Breaks and tires are two of the most important things to me for my safety so I get the best I can find for both.

That is my opinion..

[paradoxmd]

i had the road winner in the rear before i went to the diablo stradas. it seemed ok. i got almost 10000 miles out of it.

[Cale_Kat]

Personaly I would not buy them, I only have 2 tires so I won't go cheap on them. Breaks and tires are two of the most important things to me for my safety so I get the best I can find for both.

That is my opinion..

I know what you're saying about "not going cheap". But, I've done business with IRC for a number of years and while the brand is not particularily well known in the US, they are popular in Europe. Everything I do know about IRC tells me they make quality products. They're certainly not a fly-by-night operation, they've been making tires for 80 years!

[The CyberPoet]

They are listed as Bias tires. Do not use bias tires.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[letsride]

well buy a set and tell us how they are. by the way are they recaps, blemish that is real cheap for tires. i agree with zukifred tire are not a the place to save money. ive changerd tire 3 times this year on new tires because they got a whole in them. i know it is easy for me then most in here because i have a bike shop and get them at cost but even then be careful. let us know if there any good. might by 10 or 20 for the shop as a cheap alternitive

[WildKat]

Ive not used them before so I cant speak from experience but I'd be leary of them myself unless I checked them out really well. What kind of results as far as mileage do you get out of them?

Pilots or Sportechs, that'd be my choice hands down.

[Cale_Kat]

What a tough crowd! I'm just giving some folks a heads up on a good deal. You don't need to be a tire connoisseur to buy quality motorcycle tires. How about giving those of us that live on a budget a chance to share some good news. Now, a lot of comments have surfaced questioning the quality of these tires. This is unfounded. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the tires that IRC makes or these particular tires.

Let me fill you in on a few details about these tires. CyberPoet's only half right. The RX-01's are bias tires but the SP-11's are radials.

He may not like bias tires, but we don't know why because he doesn't tell us. I haven't a clue why anyone would care if they were bias tires, especially if that's what you were looking for. It's probably not a good idea to mix bias and radials on bikes but I've read that some people do, in fact at least one bike manufacturer delivers bikes with mixed construction tires.

As far as recaps, blemished, or defective? Like the listing says, these are showroom and marketing samples. This isn't a scam, the guy's got a house full of tires and he's selling some of the hundreds of tires IRC sends him for marketing purposes. These are first-rate samples and his auction is no scam.

[The CyberPoet]

Let me fill you in on a few details about these tires. CyberPoet's only half right. The RX-01's are bias tires but the SP-11's are radials.

He may not like bias tires, but we don't know why because he doesn't tell us. I haven't a clue why anyone would care if they were bias tires, especially if that's what you were looking for. It's probably not a good idea to mix bias and radials on bikes but I've read that some people do, in fact at least one bike manufacturer delivers bikes with mixed construction tires.

Those who have read my many (maybe too many) tire posts know why I specifically disrecommend running bias tires on any bike that can take radials, but since you've obviously somehow missed it, I'll go through it again (for your sake and for the sake of others new to KR who may have also missed it):

Bias motorcycle tires contain plastic belts of some sort (nylon is common, polyester, dacron and others less commonly). Although a distinct improvement over prior tires (those built with cotton and other naturally occuring threads or no threads at all -- pre 1940's), these tires do not compare well to modern metal-belted radial tires. Although it can be said that radial belts can be made of plastics (and that bias belting can be made with metals), to the best of my knowledge, all currently offered radial motorcycle tires have metal belts of some form (steel, kevlar, etc) and all bias motorcycle tires utilize plastic-based belting.

Bias tires offer some serious draw-backs compared to metal-belted radials (and these are the reasons virtually every non-cruiser bike now sold spec's radial tires as stock fitment, as do many of the cruisers):

1. Weight. Although nylon and polyester weigh less than steel, the ability to use far thinner steel threads to acheive the same strength normally represents a total weight savings in the tire construction, which improves handling, braking and acceleration.

2. Heat distribution. The contact patch of the tire generates heat as it comes past the road and deflects upon contact, then again when it bends back to it's original shape. Plastic threading is a poor carrier of heat, while metal is good carrier by comparison. Thus, metal-belted tires warm up quicker, and run cooler over-all because the heat generated spreads through the carcass much more evenly, while bias tires will create localized heat build-up that can lead to earlier failures, accelerated wear and even delamination in cases of being under-pressurized.

3. Shape retention at rapid depressurization. THIS IS THE CRITICAL ONE. Plastic threads have good tensile strength, but very little compression strength or form memory. When your tire gets punctured at speed and loses pressure very quickly, bias tires tend to result in very nasty spills because the tire deforms immediately. Metal belted radials transfer the load into the metal belts and retain their shape normally long enough to come to a full and complete stop, even with very major damages, which can be a serious lifesaver.
A specific example from one of our own (told as exactingly as I can remember): one of our members was running at high speed through the Eiffel forest (lies at the eastern border of Germany and what is now the public road used to be used as a race track) when, while pitched over hard, his tire hit a large piece of jagged metal debris from a truck at speeds of about 85 mph. The hole the debris cut was about 3/4" across and about 6" in length, across the edge of the tread area and into the sidewall area. If I recall correctly, he was two-up at the time as well. Because of the steel belting, his tire held up well enough to slow, clear the turn and come to a complete stop safely. If he had been on the bias tires he had been running just three weeks earlier (before I told him never to run bias tires and why), he and his passenger would almost assuredly be dead.

4. Because the OEM specifications for most year Katanas is specifically radials and Suzuki specifically warns against using bias tires on those bikes (I believe bias tires shipped stock through '91, at which time the entire line-up was changed to radials -- though I'm not sure of the year break for it).

5. Because radials excert a better grip factor at speed (if using identical tread compounds and shapes) due to the rotational outward pressure of the metal belting. This also makes for a smoother ride and better contact patch rentention over slightly uneven surfaces (better at sucking up minor irregularities such as 1/16th to 1/8th inch imperfections at the road surface) at speeds above about 60 mph, as welll as providing less kick-back under heavy braking. Bias tires do tend to provide smoother rides at lower speeds.

6. because radials provide better straight-line stability at high speeds due to the directional nature of the belt windings.

7. Because radials provide slightly improved fuel mileage (due primarily to being able to transmit more contact to the road while minimizing rolling resistance)

8. Because no one makes Z-rated bias motorcycle tires (as far as I know), which is the speed rating called for on the Katana due to a combination of load weights and heat build-up. Generally, bias tires cap off at H ratings, although some manufacturers do now make V rated bias tires for smaller-sized (generally 500cc and smaller) bikes.

and finally,
9. because no major tire manufacturer is putting any serious research into bias tires at our tire sizes, concentrating their R&D efforts on radials in specific sizes which represent the direction of the market and racing efforts about the globe. Thus, in general, bias tires are old-technology, not benefiting from the newest R&D, unlike the better radials on the market.

Given all that, but especially given item #3, I can not in good faith tell anyone to put bias tires on a Katana.

Hope that clears it up for you. You're right, I didn't look at the ratings for the second tire, although I did pop by the manufacturer's site looking for weight and speed ratings for their tire line-up (which I didn't find).

Additional readings if you are interested in pursuing this more:

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tech/tirez/

http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/infocenter_faq.asp?id=2#faq

http://www.metzelermoto.com/product_info/construction/index.htm

I'm sure you can find hundreds or thousands of other sources to reiterate these reasons.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[nitros222]

Thankyou Cyber

[Cale_Kat]

In deference to CyberPoet and his excellent knowledge of tires, I have edited my original post to remove the link to the RX-01 sport bias tires.

I am a little concerned, however, about the analogy relating to the rider who rode out a puncture after hitting road debris in a high speed turn ("he was pitched over hard...If I recall correctly, he was two-up at the time as well.") If there's one thing I remember from the MSF course, it's that you shouldn't enter a turn (or ride anywhere in public) at a speed so great that you can not avoid hitting an object. You have to plan for the unexpected and if that means checking your speed because you can't see what's ahead then slow down. I think the lesson in this analogy shouldn't be the value of a radial tire, but that public roads are littered with debris and are not safe places for riding at speeds that make the avoidance of road debris impossible. If you're going to be a safe rider, and I aim to clear that hurtle, you've got to ride within the bounds of yourself and nature.

[paradoxmd]

just because he was taking a turn at a high rate of speed doesn't mean he wasn't within his limits. and while the msf course does teach you to keep your head up and look where you're going, sometimes you just don't see that one piece of debris that gets you. the point cp was trying to make was just that the radials are a better or safer tire for the reasons he stated.

[ZukiFred]

Cale_Kat I hope your not geting the wrong Idea here.
We are flaming you, Or the dealer of these tires - Or saying that no one should buy them. We are just saying that we ourselves would not buy them and explaining why we feel that way.

[The CyberPoet]

I am a little concerned, however, about the analogy relating to the rider who rode out a puncture after hitting road debris in a high speed turn ("he was pitched over hard...If I recall correctly, he was two-up at the time as well.") If there's one thing I remember from the MSF course, it's that you shouldn't enter a turn (or ride anywhere in public) at a speed so great that you can not avoid hitting an object. You have to plan for the unexpected and if that means checking your speed because you can't see what's ahead then slow down. I think the lesson in this analogy shouldn't be the value of a radial tire, but that public roads are littered with debris and are not safe places for riding at speeds that make the avoidance of road debris impossible. If you're going to be a safe rider, and I aim to clear that hurtle, you've got to ride within the bounds of yourself and nature.

In the ideal world, we would all travel slow enough to avoid all road debris and obstacles. In an ideal world, there would also not be any obstacles or road debris.

In the real world, there are times that you will strike items which will cause tire damages, from nails and screws to larger pieces of metal, lumber, splintered wood, etc. A location like the Eiffel forest is particular tricky in this sense, since the tall trees create very high contrast rates between sunlit-pavement and shaded pavement, and a piece of metal the same color as the pavement hiding just inside a shade spot can be easy to miss at just about any speed higher than a walking pace.

Yes, our European brothers (myself included -- I'm German and a former German driving instructor) tend to cover good sweeping roads free of traffic at very fast paces compared to many American riders. I won't deny that (anyone who has seen me on the Cherohola skyway without a group knows). Our required training levels to simply get the basic license are also substancially higher (we joke about how easy the American licensing process is), and we literally have to train and test in bad weather, night time, highway and city streets, etc. There is also a reason that Germany has many stretches of autobahn with no speed limits, yet the accident and fatality rates as a percentage of miles driven is substancially lower than the USA... but I'm rambling off topic.

The point I was trying to make was the same basic point as why I advocate leather over pleather or vinyl gear, GP-style pads over simple foam pads, full-face helmets over skull caps, specific hardware choices -- that sometimes it's equipment grade differences and choices that can make the difference between walking away from something shaking your head and being carted off in a meat wagon. A 25 mph blow out on a bias tire can easily result in a high-side, something that is very uncommon on radial tires.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[Cale_Kat]

Yeah, I get the point about the radials being better. Lesson learned. Sorry you didn’t get my point about a certain casual attitude that story told about speed and danger that didn’t agree with me.

Honestly, I don't care if you're interested in IRC tires or think my buddy's got something you might be interested in. I came here to learn and share. While I have a lot to learn about motorcycling, its equipment, hazards, and thrills. I have a lot to share about making good decisions and how to avoid adding risk factors to risky situations. So when I read CP’s story about this accident (and the near fatality of the motorcyclist and his rider) I thought, “Would I have the stomach to make excuses like "I never saw it…" or "the light was really bad…" or “I’ve ridden that road at that speed a thousand times before…” to my family?”

So, I hope you’d never let me tell that story without pointing out my own mistakes. Something like, “If you can't see what's on the road, adjust your speed so that while you’re out there riding "blind" if you do come across some $hit large enough to rip a gapping hole in your tire, you wont get killed when you crash.” Or, “Traveling around corners on public roads at 85 mph where you could be pitched off your bike because you failed to detect a piece of road debris sufficiently large to cause a massive blow-out, is reckless.”

Too much of "it just happens..." and "out of nowhere..." in life can be avoided by eliminating the added risk factors we bring to the equation. Don’t let your last thought be, “What was the point of wearing this stupid helmet?”