Crashed my bike, now it won't start. Where to start troubleshooting?

[theonlyepi]

So just recently I wrecked my Kat up pretty good (http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=119760). I remember seeing it flip once or twice in the air, so it got banged up pretty good. Before this incident, it ran pretty good without any problems. As far as damages go, i've included a few pictures so you can see for yourself. I ordered a new crankcase cover, but the screw that's inside there and visable has a little scrape on it. I'm not sure what this screw is there for or anything, so is that important? I had a small leak in this case cover prior to my accident so a few drops of oil fell out here and there, but once this thing cracked open i guess it just dumped my oil everywhere. Also, it's hard to tell from the pictures but my clutch lever got annihilated as well. I just ordered a new one to replace this however. While I was in the hospital, my brother had to get my bike out of the impound and bring it back home and he told me a few things he tried to do to move it...

It's in gear, so dragging it back and forth wouldn't work. He tells me that it wouldn't shift, is this because of the lack of oil? He used a pair of pliers to pull the clutch cable to free the back wheel so it could be moved. Despite not having oil, he tried to start the bike when it was in this condition to see if it would still crank, and it didn't. The lights came on like normal, but no crank. I'm hoping he forgot to put the kickstand up, or maybe there's a sensor that detected the oil pressure and refused to start. Anyways, aside from the clutch lever and case cover, is there anything else I should be concerned about? It was a relatively low speed accident where the bike landed on its right side, hit some dirt and flipped a few times before landing on pavement again on its side. Any help or suggestions on where I should start to troubleshoot this beast would be a huge help. I'll be getting those parts in sometime by the end of next week, so I'll keep this thread updated. also, i'm not a mechanical genius so the simpler we can try to keep things the better

[cintidude04]

How many people does that make in the last few months trying to start an engine with no oil??? Some people...
You would still be able to get it into and out of gear with no oil.
Low speed and flipping? Or do you mean rolling over? Either way I would double check if your frame is straight.

[mammut89]

s the frame bent ? that thing got a good beating. Personally I would part out whatever is salvageable and get a new bike. the price of getting all of that damage fixed is close to another bike. even if you go the streetfighter way

[Badfaerie]

Ok, everyone, please note the following about your bike's oil.

You bike will not run, move or shift without oil. Oil is the nectar of life for a Kat. Any attempt to do any of the above with out oil will probably cause more damage to your bike.

Do NOT try to "start the bike to see if it will run" without out. It won't. Even a good motor won't run right with out oil.

Any time your bike is acting funny, check your oil. Low oil can cause lots of strange little hitches and glitches that you may or may not intuitively associate with low oil.

Oil is the #1 most important fluid in your bike. Run it dry of gas and it'll run again once you get more gas, run it dry of oil and you have created a REALLY big paper weight. Or maybe a doorstop, it would work better as I door stop maybe.


That being said, there's a clutch safety switch that I think is probably missing since you needed a pair of pliers to pull the clutch cable. It will prevent the bike from starting if the bike is in gear. You may also have other wiring harness problems/wiring issues from the wreck.

Hopefully, you have an electrical/wiring issue that prevented you from really screwing up your motor.

[arsenic]

Of course it doesn't start. What part of "I wrecked my Kat" are you not understanding?

[theonlyepi]

Of course it doesn't start. What part of "I wrecked my Kat" are you not understanding?

It wasn't me that tried to start my bike, it was my older brother. Trust me, i said the same thing to myself when he told me this.

Once the new shift lever and cover come in the mail, i'll be able to see if works at all or not but it's good to know that it's not suppose to shift or run without oil so i hope he didn't mess it up too bad... time will tell. I guess i might be parting it out, depending on how much i can get for it. i already have the parts coming in the mail, so i can decide after . i looked down my front forks to see if they look bent or anything but it looks ok. i'm still on crutches so it's hard to get a good angle haha. how can i see if my frame is bent? would it just be obvious, or is there a proper way to check it. it had 20k miles so it's been through a good amount. i think i'm the third owner, so god only knows what the last two owners did.

[05RedKat600]

Ok, everyone, please note the following about your bike's oil.

You bike will not run, move or shift without oil. Oil is the nectar of life for a Kat. Any attempt to do any of the above with out oil will probably cause more damage to your bike.

Do NOT try to "start the bike to see if it will run" without out. It won't. Even a good motor won't run right with out oil.

Any time your bike is acting funny, check your oil. Low oil can cause lots of strange little hitches and glitches that you may or may not intuitively associate with low oil.

Oil is the #1 most important fluid in your bike. Run it dry of gas and it'll run again once you get more gas, run it dry of oil and you have created a REALLY big paper weight. Or maybe a doorstop, it would work better as I door stop maybe.


That being said, there's a clutch safety switch that I think is probably missing since you needed a pair of pliers to pull the clutch cable. It will prevent the bike from starting if the bike is in gear. You may also have other wiring harness problems/wiring issues from the wreck.

Hopefully, you have an electrical/wiring issue that prevented you from really screwing up your motor.

Eh, it doesn't matter what gear it's in. It won't start in neutral or any other gear unless you pull in the clutch.

The safety switch that kills it in gear is the side stand.

It wasn't me that tried to start my bike, it was my older brother. Trust me, i said the same thing to myself when he told me this.

Once the new shift lever and cover come in the mail, i'll be able to see if works at all or not but it's good to know that it's not suppose to shift or run without oil so i hope he didn't mess it up too bad... time will tell. I guess i might be parting it out, depending on how much i can get for it. i already have the parts coming in the mail, so i can decide after . i looked down my front forks to see if they look bent or anything but it looks ok. i'm still on crutches so it's hard to get a good angle haha. how can i see if my frame is bent? would it just be obvious, or is there a proper way to check it. it had 20k miles so it's been through a good amount. i think i'm the third owner, so god only knows what the last two owners did.

Spend the money and have the frame professionally evaluated at a reputable shop. Or, to save money, find a good frame with title for cheap, and swap over all your good parts.

Either way, you've got some work ahead of you. Glad you're alive.

[scottynoface]

Eh, it doesn't matter what gear it's in. It won't start in neutral or any other gear unless you pull in the clutch.

The safety switch that kills it in gear is the side stand.

Yup, I bypassed the clutch switch on mine and any time it died at a light I just cranked it in first and went about my business...

My Ninja does have a neutral safety I think...never had to try it out. Liquid cooling ftw.

[Badfaerie]

Eh, it doesn't matter what gear it's in. It won't start in neutral or any other gear unless you pull in the clutch.

Sorry, the clutch switch on my Kat is bypassed and on my Ninja it will start in neutral w/o the clutch, but not in gear so I guessed that the Kat one might work the same way.

[05RedKat600]

Sorry, the clutch switch on my Kat is bypassed and on my Ninja it will start in neutral w/o the clutch, but not in gear so I guessed that the Kat one might work the same way.

Lol no worries! I tried and tested mine when I got it to be sure of how it works. I still have the clutch switch in place. Although I admit that at the first sign of trouble, it or the sidestand switch will get jumpered instead of replaced.

[Mojoe]

It wasn't me that tried to start my bike, it was my older brother. Trust me, i said the same thing to myself when he told me this.

Once the new shift lever and cover come in the mail, i'll be able to see if works at all or not but it's good to know that it's not suppose to shift or run without oil so i hope he didn't mess it up too bad... time will tell. I guess i might be parting it out, depending on how much i can get for it. i already have the parts coming in the mail, so i can decide after . i looked down my front forks to see if they look bent or anything but it looks ok. i'm still on crutches so it's hard to get a good angle haha. how can i see if my frame is bent? would it just be obvious, or is there a proper way to check it. it had 20k miles so it's been through a good amount. i think i'm the third owner, so god only knows what the last two owners did.

hmm....I see quite a bit of "misinformation" being given already, so I will try not to confuse you anymore.

1st...you can indeed start a bike with no oil in. it is not advisable and can cause damage, but it WILL start if you try. if your bike is not starting, or at least firing, then your problem lies elsewhere, and not just because you have no oil in it.

2nd...the reason your bike will not start just by pulling on the cable with vice grips is because the clutch handle assy has a little set of contacts built into it. when you pull on the clutch handle, you active the contact and it will in turn allow current to run to the starter. you are bypassing this by just pulling on the cable itself with vice grips, and that is the reason your engine will not turn over......and not because there is no oil in the crankcase, as some would try to have you believe.

3rd...as for it not shifting into neutral, lack of oil can make it a bit stiff, so you probably need to sit on the bike and rock it back and forth while trying to shift. I am betting he tried without doing this, so the gears are just having trouble to un-mesh.

in short, I think your problems are miniscule. a new clutch handle should get it to turn over, and likely start right up....just don't forget to add oil. and once started, I think it will probably shift just fine. in all honesty, though, I would not put too much money into doing cosmetic repairs until you can at least take it for a spin and see how it tracks. forks can get tweaked just enough to scrap handling, yet not be really visible to the human eye. or the frame could be torqued. and if the "flip" was solid enough, you can even torque a wheel or a brake rotor, which will also cause handling problems. I would confirm that these things are ok before venturing any farther.

oh...and I also think that unless one is 100% certain about what they are talking about, they should refrain from giving out mechanical advice. if the first thing that pops in your head is that the bike won't crank over when pulling on the clutch cable with vise grips is because there is no oil in it, instead of acknowledging the fact that by doing that he is bypassing the clutch switch.....well, you should not be giving out mechanical advice. one might think they are being helpful by trying, but all you do is confuse the person even more as to what his problem really is, and wasting his time. If I sound a little condescending when saying that...well, so be it. I would gladly accept that judgement if it helps a fellow biker get up and running sooner than if he followed really bad advice.

[cintidude04]

You bike will not run, move or shift without oil. Oil is the nectar of life for a Kat. Any attempt to do any of the above with out oil will probably cause more damage to your bike.

I was able to shift mine through all the gears with my oil pan dropped when I was installing the FP shift indent kit. Its even apart of the instructions that if you cannot shift smoothly through all the gears before putting it back together, then you installed it wrong.

[arsenic]

If I sound a little condescending when saying that...well, so be it. I would gladly accept that judgement if it helps a fellow biker get up and running sooner than if he followed really bad advice.

Amen.

[Badfaerie]

I was able to shift mine through all the gears with my oil pan dropped when I was installing the FP shift indent kit. Its even apart of the instructions that if you cannot shift smoothly through all the gears before putting it back together, then you installed it wrong.

That's a little different, you had it apart and were manipulating it manually, and inspecting it. The situation is completely different.

Now, on to the other rant.

The engine is lubricated and cooled by the oil. The clutch works off it as well. Yes, you might be able to get it to fire, and you might be manipulate/force the clutch to work long enough for you to get it in and out of gear, but really, is that our definition of running? As someone already said, there's been a rash lately of folks trying to start and or run their bikes low or without oil to various bad ends.

The first thing I notice when/if a bike is low on oil is that the clutch gets wonky and it starts shifting hard, if it shifts at all.

And I went to the clutch switch because poster mentioned nothing happened with the starter button, which tells me that the starter isn't engaging, unless he's missed some stuff in his description. If the starter isn't engaging, it's either an electrical issue or the starter itself. Knowing that there is a switch on an apparently missing clutch lever, that unless engaged would prevent the starter from engaging, it seemed a logical first step.

Along those lines, if you are just pulling the clutch cable with pliers, you may not be getting the clutch to do it's thing, that could be/exasperate the shifting issue.

But that's just an aside. If the starter is never even engaging, the fact that there is no oil is not a concern. The next step would be to get oil in the bike and track down the starter problem right?

So please let me know what part of my advice was wrong and confusing. (well except for the wrong part that I corrected in the next post)

[arsenic]

2nd...the reason your bike will not start just by pulling on the cable with vice grips is because the clutch handle assy has a little set of contacts built into it. when you pull on the clutch handle, you active the contact and it will in turn allow current to run to the starter. you are bypassing this by just pulling on the cable itself with vice grips, and that is the reason your engine will not turn over......and not because there is no oil in the crankcase, as some would try to have you believe.

(I didn't read all this crap to actually see if it's wrong, but if he was told it would start by just pulling the clutch cable with pliers... no it won't. )