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Trouble with pre-98 California Kat

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  • Trouble with pre-98 California Kat

    Hello everyone,

    My Kat died seemingly overnight last week. After a hard stop trying to avoid a careless cager the bike started to sputter. I looked at the gas gauge and noticed I needed to refuel. I brought the tank to the 3/4 mark and started it again; but, as I drove away I felt the bike lose power and had to open the throttle fully to keep moving slowly. A quarter mile later the engine quit and I had to push it home about two blocks down the street. The bike had been running very well prior to this day. The day before I rode it about 60 miles on the freeway without any hint of problems. The last carburator and valve service was done by my neighboorhood bike shop about 4000 miles ago, in October last year.
    I removed the gas tank and found the fuel petcock did not have a vacuum line attached. Figuring this was the cause of the problem I found the loose hose from carb #4 and reconnected it. I also reconnected the airbox drain hose because it had come undone. I started to crank the engine with the fuel petcock in the ON postion and the choke lever opened full but the engine did not turn over. I connected jumper cables to my car to assist the bike's battery and switched the petcock to PRI while I waited for about 30 secs for the carbs to fill up. With choke on full, throttle closed, petcock in PRI, my car running hooked to the Kat's battery posts, the starter began to crank and after a couple of attempts the engined turned over slowly pushing white smoke out of the exhaust and near the head cover. I pulled the 4000 mile-old plugs, two were oily, one dry black and another seemed just fuel wet. I checked for spark and found it on all four plugs. Cleaned them, replaced them and tried the engine again. The longest the engined has turned over is about 4 seconds, the legntt of time fuel remains in the bowls I suppose.
    At this point I suspect I have a bad PVC or vacuum somewhere. I want to disable the California emissions system so I can trouble shoot this problem further.

    Can anyone tell me if this conversion is as simple as fabricating block off plates for the passages below the exhaust headers, capping the vapor plugs at the bottom and at the top of the carburators (8 plugs in total), capping the vapor hose from the tank to the charcoal cannister, and connecting the vacuum line from carb#4 to the rear of the fuel petcock?

    I will not remove the the air switching valve, PAIRs, 2nd air filter, charcoal cannister from the bike yet. I just want to see the bike idling and possibly running without the added complications of the emissions system. Carb cleaning, adjustment, valve clearance check and likely new piston rings will follow after I get her idling.

    I've just picked up a few feet of new hose from the store and will be removing the inline fuel filters that the shop installed to rule out blockage at that point. The current house routing is shown in the picture I have attached. Carb# 4 vaccum plugged to the rear of fuel petcock dual fuel lines with inline filters plugged to carbs. California nipple or T-splitter connected to air switching valve and to top of carbs # 4 and #2, a hose bridging vacuum plugs at top of carbs 2&3. The vacuum diagram sticker on top of the rear tire well shows a different routing; but, the bike was working fine with the current set up before. If you can spot anything out of place in the picture please let me know.
    Attached Files
    1996 Suzuki Katana GSX600F
    My heart rate slows down, I begin to daydream and my eyes feel heavy when I sit in my car in traffic. None of that ever happens when I'm on my bike.

  • #2
    I took all the emmissions stuff off my 88 600 and just capped everything and i think it ran better. it wasnt to hard. Also on the little plates in the front of the motor with the steel lines i cut them off and JB welded the holes to cap them
    Last edited by Phil042; 06-10-2008, 05:01 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      After completing the conversion, did you simply connect the vacuum line from carburator # 4 to the back of the petcock and the fuel hose to the carburators?
      1996 Suzuki Katana GSX600F
      My heart rate slows down, I begin to daydream and my eyes feel heavy when I sit in my car in traffic. None of that ever happens when I'm on my bike.

      Comment


      • #4
        the vaccum port on the bottom of carb 4 you can plug and just use the one coming out of carb 3 that is your main vaccum line for your petcock. and for the fuel hose yes just simply hook them up

        Comment


        • #5
          All right. I'll take a closer look at carb #3. I saw what appeared to be a vacuum plug; but, I did not notice any pressure when I placed a small piece of plastic over the tube.
          1996 Suzuki Katana GSX600F
          My heart rate slows down, I begin to daydream and my eyes feel heavy when I sit in my car in traffic. None of that ever happens when I'm on my bike.

          Comment


          • #6
            I have never messed with the Cali models before, but..... The vac line coming off the right side of carb 4 is the one that usually goes to the back of the petcock. You can just cap off or run together all other vacuum lines to eliminate them as possible issues. Have you verified that fuel flows freely from the petcock when on Prime? If you connect a hose to the rear port of the petcock and apply vacuum (suck on it) will fuel flow when in the ON position? There COULD be an obstruction of the filter screen inside the tank that got moved around during the hard stop.

            Greg

            COURAGE -

            Freedom is the sure possession of those alone
            who have the courage to defend it.

            First Sergeant(Ret) - US Army - 21 years

            Comment


            • #7
              alright unfortunately my bike has a little different carbs than your bike mine being an 88, but if you could get a picture a little closer of the carbs and the hoses i might be able to help. The line off of carb 4 is to the petcock any other lines should be capped
              Last edited by Phil042; 06-11-2008, 12:15 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Ok,
                1: Never jump a bike from a running car, your going to fry your electrical on the bike.

                2: Kats do not have pvc's

                3: Inline fuel filters on a pre is not a smart idea, they dont flow properly and cause loss of fuel on the upper end. Tried and tested on many kats.

                Now, pull the plugs, clean them agian, leave them out for a bit to let the cylinders dry out. The excess fuel can refoul the cleaned plugs. Since the bike started to act weird right after this incident, I'd suspect fouled plugs, Which you found. However cleaned and stuffed back without allowing the cylinders time to dry. The white smoke was the excess fuel, but obviously not nearly all of it.

                As for the cali stuff, I dunno, I'll leave that to someone whos done a conversion on a cali bike.
                If its not broke, Hit it with a bigger hammer and blame it on cheap imports

                RIP Dad 3/15/08 Love and miss ya already




                Originally posted by Nero
                Even I played for a minute or so, then I recovered what little manhood I had left and stopped.

                Comment


                • #9
                  So..... you ran the bike about out of gas, and then when you filled it back up, it ran like pizz, and then died?
                  I would guess you sucked up some bottom-of-tank gunk into your carbs.
                  Any and all statements by Loudnlow7484 are merely his own opinions, and not necessarily the opinion of Katriders.com. Anything suggested by him is to be followed at your own risk, and may result in serious injury or death. Responses from this member have previously been attributed to all of the following: depression, insomnia, nausea, suicidal tendencies, and panic. Please consult a mental health professional before reading any post by Loudnlow7484.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by loudnlow7484 View Post
                    So..... you ran the bike about out of gas, and then when you filled it back up, it ran like pizz, and then died?
                    I would guess you sucked up some bottom-of-tank gunk into your carbs.
                    The inline filters should have caught any gunk and upon visual inspections they do not appear to be clogged, fuel is flowing through them; but, I will remove them and connect a new hose from the petcock to the carburator tomorrow.

                    Originally posted by Court93kat View Post
                    I have never messed with the Cali models before, but..... The vac line coming off the right side of carb 4 is the one that usually goes to the back of the petcock. You can just cap off or run together all other vacuum lines to eliminate them as possible issues. Have you verified that fuel flows freely from the petcock when on Prime? If you connect a hose to the rear port of the petcock and apply vacuum (suck on it) will fuel flow when in the ON position? There COULD be an obstruction of the filter screen inside the tank that got moved around during the hard stop.
                    Fuel flows freely from the petcock when set to PRIME and it stops, as it should, when set to RES or ON. I have not tried applying vaccum manually to check the diaphram on the petcock, yet.

                    I also tested the battery voltage and it's over 13V. I trickle charged it overnight last night. After attempting to turn the engine over again for several minutes the exhaust headers for carbs 1 & 2 are warm, header #3 is slightly above ambient temp and header #4 is completely cold. I'll put an ohm meter on the ingnition coils tomorrow.
                    Last edited by sinclave; 06-11-2008, 02:16 AM. Reason: Added last paragraph
                    1996 Suzuki Katana GSX600F
                    My heart rate slows down, I begin to daydream and my eyes feel heavy when I sit in my car in traffic. None of that ever happens when I'm on my bike.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      no need to put an ohm meeter on it if cylinder 1 is hot and 4 is cold cause its 1&4 on one coil and 2&3 on the other so the rules out a coil its deff carburation sounds like blocked pilot or main jets

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        However, I would also check the plugs to make sure they are firing. Take all four of them out, lay them on the valve cover and hit the start button. Watch for spark on all 4 of them. If you don't have spark, there is one issue. Then we know which direction to help you go.

                        Greg

                        COURAGE -

                        Freedom is the sure possession of those alone
                        who have the courage to defend it.

                        First Sergeant(Ret) - US Army - 21 years

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          In line fuel filters weren't standard on the bike. My first thought is that you have an air bubble in the fuel lines that is stopping fuel from flowing freely.

                          Do you have a headlight? I only skimmed all the posts... but if you have no electric it's possible you popped the main breaker (or fuse).
                          -Steve


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