Front Brake Lines - Bleeding - Replacement

[ctandc]

I've been reading old threads from here...and I have a "theory".

First off, 99% of all people who buy a used Kat will find that the owner didn't consider brake hoses a maintenance item..unless they busted / leaked. So most all will have the stock lines.

Mine are OEM....and the bike is 16 years old. And yes I'm replacing them.

But...several times I found posts here on KR that compared one brand of brake line to another and as far as just 'feel' or 'before and after' effect, it seemed that the two line always ruled over the replacement 3 line braided set.

Wouldn't that make sense?


Anyway...I'm going to order the HEL lines in the next day or so....in the meantime something hit me the other night.

When I first bought my Kat, the front brake lever was 'fine'..granted the calipers and entire brake system were NASTY, and the pads were worn etc etc...but AFTER I rebuilt the calipers, added EBC HH pads, replaced the master cylinder with a 2006 Kat master cylinder with low miles, added speedbleeders, flushed the system and added synthetic fluid etc etc...

The front brake lever now pulls further in before brake action than BEFORE I went thru everything. Feels like it needs more bleeding. (Which I've done over and over..even zip tied the handle to the bar one night - same feel).

Now until I felt the brake handle on a BONE STOCK 1 year old Kat yesterday, I didn't realize it was that BIG of a difference.

I HOPE I'm making sense here.

BEFORE : Brakes worked. More 'pull' (same adjustment) on lever, but brake action / feel was crappy.

AFTER: Brakes worked MUCH BETTER. No noise, smoother action, better 'feel', but more 'pull' (same adjustment) on the lever.


I'm going to replace the lines sure...but I personally think there is air trapped in that brake hose union / coupler where the hoses split off to each caliper. Anyone else had this issue? Tips for getting it bled out?

Thanks.

[steves]

You know that lever has an adjuster on it that controls how far it pulls in, right? Little dial right about where the lever connects to the cylinder.

[brooder]

To bleed it out, loosen the bolt at the joining point and squeeze the brake lever until some fluid comes out and then retighten.

I'm having the same problem since I changed my lines. I'm not seeing bubbles coming out of the bleeders, but the brake feel is horrible. Even let mine sit overnight open. I'm going to try bleeding again once the temp gets above 30 (in a week or so....if I'm lucky). But's a bit disconcerting that even with supposedly air-free fluid, the brakes still feel like crap. I even vac-pulled fluid down the lines. No idea. I need a garage so I can work on this stuff as I think about it.

[ctandc]

You know that lever has an adjuster on it that controls how far it pulls in, right? Little dial right about where the lever connects to the cylinder.

That's why I kept repeating "SAME ADJUSTMENT" in my initial post.

It's been on '1' from the get go. If I put it on '4' it almost hits the grip LOL...

How I bled :

I used speedbleeders.

Entire system was apart (not for an extended time frame 1 / 2 days at most). Front Calipers rebuilt. All old fluid flushed out.

When I started bleeding, it was taking forever. I ended up having to brake the line loose at the mastercylinder until fluid ran out, then tightening back. After that I had to break the line lose at each caliper until fluid started to leak out a bit...and then I was able to get 'healthy' amounts of fluid out of the speedbleeder when I pumped them.

The piston seal on my front master cylinder was a bit ragged, but I had scored a almost new 2006 Kat 600 Master cylinder right before that with some other parts, and I replaced it...a bit better, but not much.

I'm going play a hunch when I get home tonight...


I'm going to take off the resovoir cover, make sure the fluid is full...then I'm going to do the following:

- Pump the lever several times and then hold it in while I loose the hose to master cylinder bolt, just enough to let fluid come out. ( I don't remember actually holding the lever in when I did this last time - if it even matters).

Then I'm going to break the top line loose at the distribution block, and try bleeding from there.

I'm almost certain I've got air trapped in there.

And I bled it on the sidestand last time too.

I'll report back tonight.

[steves]

Sorry, my eyes glaze over during long posts sometimes.

Tie the lever back overnight with the cap loose, then re-bleed the lines to see if it gets any better. I had a heck of a time getting the kat bled right.... on the Bandit and the GS I used a 2 line front set up and deleted the block.

[brooder]

I didn't have the cap loose when I did it. Maybe that was part of my problem. I'm running the 2-line HEL setup on mine right now.

[Black_peter]

I don't think you need to leave the cap loose.. Am I missing something? Are you riding in Illinois?
I would hold off doing a lot of work that you will need to redo when you change the lines. Once you're that far into the system (replacing hoses, calipers etc) getting all the air out can be a cast iron *****.. It took me weeks to just get the calipers to work! I must have bled a quart of fluid through and the lever was still floppy.

I don't know about your set up but if you can try to use a syringe and try "pushing" the fluid up, as well as try bleeding it down..

[brooder]

I don't think you need to leave the cap loose.. Am I missing something? Are you riding in Illinois?
I would hold off doing a lot of work that you will need to redo when you change the lines. Once you're that far into the system (replacing hoses, calipers etc) getting all the air out can be a cast iron *****.. It took me weeks to just get the calipers to work! I must have bled a quart of fluid through and the lever was still floppy.

I don't know about your set up but if you can try to use a syringe and try "pushing" the fluid up, as well as try bleeding it down..

Not riding. But working on the bike fills the craving at least a little bit. Besides, when I get this done and temps go above freezing again, I'll start riding again.

I have Speedbleeders installed so I can't force fluid up. The one-way ball valve prevents it. I bled down using a syringe, just sucked fluid down the line. Seemed to work. But, as I think about it, I kept getting bubbles, even after almost a full bottle of fluid...

I did a full replacement of the lines and rebuild of the calipers, so know of the cast iron ----- that you're talking about. This is becoming a real pain.

I have to wait, now, though. We've got 38 for a hi today but I'm busy all afternoon. Then we're down into the 20s for the next few days. My hands don't move well at that temp and my knees refuse to allow me to remain squatting long enough to do the work.

[Black_peter]

I have Speedbleeders installed so I can't force fluid up. The one-way ball valve prevents it. .

Another reason not to use them IMO..
Why fight gravity. Or why force a bubble all the way down the system when It might be 1 inch from the top?

I got you and CtandC mixed up. Hey you guys want to share a thread.. You cherry pick my reply!