[Kreylyn]

I'd use Sea Foam

Per the origianl posting, my problem formed/occured with the use of seafoam. It did not stop it.

Krey

[DClark]

I'd use Sea Foam

The problem is the alcohol in the fuel. Seafoam is 30% alcohol. If anything, Seafoam will make it worse.Looking at other forums, no one using Seafoam has had any success with it curing e10 jet clogging- it has a 100% failure rate.
As for using e85 to clean carb parts, I wouldn't as there are much better petroleum based cleaners out there. Personally, I prefer berrymans.

[Sundowner]

Krey this sounds like what is happening to my carbs on both bikes - FL has a 10% Ethanol rating here- I threw 93 oct in the 600's Tank and an oz of Stabil and She's running a wee bit better than she did a week ago.

Gonna Pop the Bowls off the 750 later today and see what i find

[adriel]

Seen the clear blobs in the bottom of my bowls after bike sat for 2 weeks. After reading this, it looks like I should clean out the emulsion tubes too.

[Kreylyn]

The problem is the alcohol in the fuel. Seafoam is 30% alcohol. If anything, Seafoam will make it worse.Looking at other forums, no one using Seafoam has had any success with it curing e10 jet clogging- it has a 100% failure rate.
As for using e85 to clean carb parts, I wouldn't as there are much better petroleum based cleaners out there. Personally, I prefer berrymans.

Seafoam will NOT make it worse. Your talking about 2 completely different beasts.

Ethanol (ethyl alcohol also called "Grain Alcohol" commonly ) and Isopropanol (Isopropyl Alcohol also called "Rubbing Alcohol") are not the same thing, and respond differently to water. There are 3 major subsets of alcohols: Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary based upon the number of carbon atoms.

Ethanol is a Primary or "simple" alcohol, and is what you find in your drinks... Beer, liquor, wine, so on... Ethanol responds to water by attracting and absorbing it, or exibiting Hydroscopic properties. It will pull moister out of the air to bond with it... and form clusters of this mixture. This causes a problem with it's volitile properties, and is why Ethanol fuels have such short shelf lifes.

Denatured Alcohol is just Ethanol with additives to make it not fit for human consuption so it's not "taxed" like it is for drinks, and is primary for the purpose of fuels or fuel additives.

Isopropanol is a Secondary alcohol you can not drink, and is the primary ingredient used in any chemical offering that needs a solvent or dehydrating agent. Isopropanol does not attract water. Isopropanol solubilizes the water already present and prevents water from becoming insoluble (simple terms, it prevents the water from forming masses or droplets). Solubilized water in fuels do not collect and is expelled out the exhaust when the fuel burns. It will counter the hydroscopic properties of Ethanol if sufficient quantities are used.

Obviously since seafoam is only 10-15 ISP, and you only add 1 oz of seafoam to 1 gallon of E85, which is 85% Ethanol.... well... that math is pretty simple. It's like putting out a fire with a thimble... Nope, not gonna work for that.

Thus the reason for the original posting... Seafoam doesn't make it worse, but it's becoming appearant that the newer increased amounts of Ethanol in the fuels is over riding the preventative properties of Seafoam....

Krey

[DClark]

Seafoam will NOT make it worse. Your talking about 2 completely different beasts.


Obviously since seafoam is only 10-15 ISP, and you only add 1 oz of seafoam to 1 gallon of E85, which is 85% Ethanol.... well... that math is pretty simple. It's like putting out a fire with a thimble... Nope, not gonna work for that.

Thus the reason for the original posting... Seafoam doesn't make it worse, but it's becoming appearant that the newer increased amounts of Ethanol in the fuels is over riding the preventative properties of Seafoam....

Krey

The E10 clogs up the pilots so that the bike starts to run lean. Any alcohol added will aggravate this situation. Yes, it can be argued that the amount of alcohol being added is not much, but any alcohol added is a step in the wrong direction. I can easily picture a frustrated owner putting in an extra dose of Seafoam and getting more pops out of the motor. My motor was running so lean that I could see some damage occuring to it if left unchecked.
I drained my tank this morning and filled it up with water, then dumped it out. Currently, it is out in the backyard where hopefully, a day spent outside with 95+ degrees will dry it out.I'll whip out the carb spray, fill up the fuel hoses, before connecting the tank. Tank will get new premium fuel filled with a double of startron and I'll see how it goes.

[rexazz2]

Do you southern guys ever see Gas line De/icer?
Since the fuel bowls are a PIA to drain ,the first sign of poor performance I throw a whole bottle into a tank of fuel
Its like a $1 for a bottle and most gas stations here even have it on the shelf in summer
It is probably mostly IPA but with some addatives because there is a carb or FI version

[Kreylyn]

The E10 clogs up the pilots so that the bike starts to run lean. Any alcohol added will aggravate this situation. Yes, it can be argued that the amount of alcohol being added is not much, but any alcohol added is a step in the wrong direction. I can easily picture a frustrated owner putting in an extra dose of Seafoam and getting more pops out of the motor. My motor was running so lean that I could see some damage occuring to it if left unchecked.
I drained my tank this morning and filled it up with water, then dumped it out. Currently, it is out in the backyard where hopefully, a day spent outside with 95+ degrees will dry it out.I'll whip out the carb spray, fill up the fuel hoses, before connecting the tank. Tank will get new premium fuel filled with a double of startron and I'll see how it goes.

I get your point, but you still trying to lump together 2 completely different issues to support "it's all bad" statement.

Ethanol isn't a problem for me because it runs a little bit leaner, or has less energy per volume so the MPG decreases some. I ride a motorcycle (high MPG comparatively) for fun/hobby (discretional spending, and certainly no different for me than say spending an extra $1.00 for cheese on a burger...). If all Ethanol did was decrease the MPG, and make it run a little leaner... I'd adjust my A/F screws a 1/4 turn and smile and go on....

Ethanol is causing the gas to go bad (engine won't run on it) and not just leaning out jets... actually clogging them up. Stopping the fuel from flowing at all. No engine running = no riding at all.

Additives to help prevent that may also lean things out. Again, adjust the A/F screws, maybe shim a needle... not a big deal if that is what needs to be done. If I wasn't buying more gas, I'd be paying more per gallon anyways... they are gonna get their money somehow.

My problem is a fuel additive (ethanol) is causing the fuel to stop flowing in the carbs at all... not that additives can lean things out. Seafoam wont' cause things to clog. Ethanol does.

Again... I agree any additive will lean things out... but that isn't that big of a deal.

Krey

[BareKat]

Hey Kreylyn, you could always try this tool to check your fuel... google Daansen Fuel Tester

[DClark]

I just got back from a ride...
I drained tank, rinsed it with water, let it dry in the yard, refilled with fresh premium gas (bought today) and added 1 oz of startron (good heavy dose).
The idle was hanging and the bike popped a little. Great- things are clogged!
I took it on the freeway and got a couple of pops, maybe two while cruising.
Top end didn't feel good at all, maybe there is some clogging elsewhere in my carbs.
Pulled into a parking lot, idle is better now. Bike is good and hot, been riding for ten minutes, idle doesn't hang like it used to.
I am thinking that there is still some goo in the carbs, but that it might be melting off under the onslaught of fresh, non-goo gas. With regular e10 gas, I envision many little blobs of goo, like snorkeling in Cozumel when I saw lots of itty bitty jelly fish. One may not clog up the jets, but get a bunch of them and clog they will.
I will take it for a good ride tomorrow and if it is still soft on top, I'll pop the carbs off and look at the pilots and the emulsion tubes. If the pilots are clogged, it is from the before I use the startron. If I clean them and they clog again, then this stuff is no doing the job. But I am optimistic.
Also, Walmart also sells the marine Stabil which states that it is good for E10 gas.

[4banger]

http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.p...hlight=ethanol

Somebody told me that all fuel has to have 10% ethanol in Canada regardless of octane grade
Local mechanic at Honda dealer says they see tons of small engine stuff with fuel issues

Shell V-Power contains NO ethanol, midgrade has 5%, regular has 10%, at least in Ontario.

Hey Kreylyn, you could always try this tool to check your fuel... google Daansen Fuel Tester

This tool you mention is $5!!! Does it really work, I mean it's so damn cheap. *edit* I just ordered one. $13 with shipping from sky geek.

[DClark]

Shell V-Power contains NO ethanol, midgrade has 5%, regular has 10%, at least in Ontario.

That's there, this is here. People get brand loyal to a station, not knowing that the same gas is being sold at the quickie mart down the block for $.20 less a gallon.
I saw a delivery truck pull away from the Chevron station and I followed it. It stopped to unload more fuel at a nasty looking generic gas station.
Why does the Chevron stuff cost more when it is the same stuff? Because they have to pay for the advertising budget somehow. Like I have said before, in my area, all gas is made by Tosco/Chevron/BP.At the tank yard, they blend it with ethanol (there is a large tank marked "Ethanol" that's visable from the freeway) In your neck of the woods, it can/will be different.

[4banger]

That's there, this is here. People get brand loyal to a station, not knowing that the same gas is being sold at the quickie mart down the block for $.20 less a gallon.
I saw a delivery truck pull away from the Chevron station and I followed it. It stopped to unload more fuel at a nasty looking generic gas station.
Why does the Chevron stuff cost more when it is the same stuff? Because they have to pay for the advertising budget somehow. Like I have said before, in my area, all gas is made by Tosco/Chevron/BP.At the tank yard, they blend it with ethanol (there is a large tank marked "Ethanol" that's visable from the freeway) In your neck of the woods, it can/will be different.

The person I responded to (rexazz2) lives in Canada, so my post is relevant.

[bob393]

I've been trying different brands of gas this season and I'm having reasonable good luck with Gulf gas around here, still 10% methanol but the bike appears to be running better than it did on Mobil, Hess, or Quick Check gas. I've wanted to try Sunoco but haven't yet. I too would like to know if the higher octanes have no methanol in the blend. I think they do around here.

Just an update:
I now use Shell high test exclusively. Defiantly runs the best on it!
They call it "Shell V Power" some kind of nitrogen enriched formula
or something but it works for me!

[jbgarretson]

Does anyone know why Its E85 and not E100?