High Mileage Bikes (Bikes In General)

[Syndacate]

Hey,

I'm looking into buying a new bike, want to step up my learner's bike a ('97 kat750) to a liter bike.

Right now seems to be the ultimate time to buy, as everybody wants to dump it before the season is completely over, meanwhile when spring hits, bikes will pull a premium and it'll be a complete sellers market - that's when I intend to turn over my Kat for some of this money back O.o.

The problem is, trying to buy a liter bike on a low budget is a bad idea . Been pretty much looking for a GSX-R 1000 or a CBR954/CBR1000 (R1's, too, but haven't seen any for sale). Now I'm definitely not the brightest, so I still want to go forward with the idea of getting a liter bike, even though my budget doesn't support it.

This means I have to compromise something to make it work - that has to be either A) Mileage, or B) Body damage. Seeing as I'm not looking for a bike that's been dumped or tripped, I'm looking at higher mileage bikes.

Which is why I'm here.

Note that I'm only 23..or 22, or something.

I told my dad I was going to buy a faster bike and he started lecturing me about mileage on bikes being a lot higher than it is on a car.

So how bad is mileage really to a bike?

I'm looking at a '03 GSX-R 1000 on Wednesday and it has 24k on it - which is a ****-TON. But that mileage combined with a buyer's market right now makes it RIDICULOUSLY CHEAP - even in mint condition.

So why do bikes last so little, is it just b/c idiots beat the hell out of them? Is that it? Is 24k really "equivalent to '240k'"? I mean I read some build thread of some guy making his CBR600F4I last 200k with a rebuilt motor (at like 100k) - obviously how you treat it has something to do with it. Though I mean, where's the weak link in bikes? Also, how long "can" a bike last - good conditions, and if somebody beats on it?

This GSXR-1000 has 24k on it, what's the highest you'd pay for it assuming it test drives 100% and is in mint condition as claimed?

Thanks, guys, for your input!

[loudnlow7484]

Price of bikes has less to do with mileage and more to do with condition. If you're looking at a bike that has 24k miles but you're sure it wasn't beaten and was well maintained, I'd prefer that over a bike with 2400 miles on it that has a stunt cage and a 12 bar.

For sportbikes, generally, 50k is high mileage. Some hit 100k or more if they're well taken care of, but as long as a bike isn't abused 24k is nothing.

[Syndacate]

Price of bikes has less to do with mileage and more to do with condition. If you're looking at a bike that has 24k miles but you're sure it wasn't beaten and was well maintained, I'd prefer that over a bike with 2400 miles on it that has a stunt cage and a 12 bar.

For sportbikes, generally, 50k is high mileage. Some hit 100k or more if they're well taken care of, but as long as a bike isn't abused 24k is nothing.

There's two things that bother me about that.

A) It's a sport bike - ASSUME IT WAS ABUSED - is the way I see it. People don't buy liter bikes to not get passed 45mph, y'know what I'm saying? Now some will ridiculously beat on it while some will just wind it out here and there, that's the difference, the way I see it..

B) How do you *know* whether or not it was beat on? I mean you can make some hypotheses I suppose based on looking at it, like rubber under the fairing, but other than that, what can you look for?

I have no clue whether the bike was abused or not, I can only go by what I feel in the test drive. If it feels 100% solid, no fork shakes or shimmies, clutch feels smooth, smooth power band, etc., how am I to know if there's anything wrong with it? You can't know whether it was beat on, so I mean, it goes back to the thing about how long do bikes last?

You can't quite see the condition of the internals from the outside, y'know?

[loudnlow7484]

There's two things that bother me about that.

A) It's a sport bike - ASSUME IT WAS ABUSED - is the way I see it. People don't buy liter bikes to not get passed 45mph, y'know what I'm saying? Now some will ridiculously beat on it while some will just wind it out here and there, that's the difference, the way I see it..

B) How do you *know* whether or not it was beat on? I mean you can make some hypotheses I suppose based on looking at it, like rubber under the fairing, but other than that, what can you look for?

I have no clue whether the bike was abused or not, I can only go by what I feel in the test drive. If it feels 100% solid, no fork shakes or shimmies, clutch feels smooth, smooth power band, etc., how am I to know if there's anything wrong with it? You can't know whether it was beat on, so I mean, it goes back to the thing about how long do bikes last?

You can't quite see the condition of the internals from the outside, y'know?

You have to read the owner. If you show up and the guy is 45, talks about when he used to ride BSA's when he was younger, he talks about how meticulous he was with maintenance, etc then probably the bike has been taken care of. If he has been riding for a lot of years, then probably the bike was taken care of (careless riders just don't last that long). Look at the guy's house, if it is well taken care of, if the cars are well taken care of, etc then the bike will probably be the same. Of course most sport bikes are ridden fast, but that doesn't mean they were abused. A modern sport bike can be ridden incredibly fast without even breaking a sweat.

Stuff like a stunt cage, 12 bar, REALLY short gearing (like a 50+ tooth back sprocket), etc is a sign that you should take care, because the bike has probably been beaten.

If you're unable to get a feel for the owner, then use your best sense. If it's making a lot of noise like valves haven't been adjusted in 20k miles, then they probably haven't. Look at the oil, is it obviously ancient? Sprockets worn into saw teeth? Ever been down (you have to look for signs of this)?

Buying vehicles (motorcycle or otherwise) is a partially objective and partially subjective process. Use ALL of the information and observations to make a decision. No, there is no "abuse meter" on a bike, but with careful consideration of EVERYTHING you see, you should be able to get some idea of how the bike was treated.

[DClark]

Chicken stripes on the tires would be nice.

[akarob]

There are also tell tale signs of wear - such as condition of shifter levers, foot pegs, side cases, etc. If the oil is black, the air filter dirty, and the oil filter looks like it's never been changed, walk away.

[steves]

http://www.motorcycleanchor.com/motorcycle/how_to/mc_buyingused.html

GSXRs and R1's are almost commodity bikes anymore. There's lots of them out there, and lots of them that have been abused.

Make sure you check into insurance prices before you purchase one or you may find yourself with a payment you can't swallow.

The "average" idiot doesn't really know how to ride, and does less than 1000 miles per season. I see these bikes all the time. Big old chicken strips with cords showing on the middle two inches. The bike has probably been in a few low speed/parking lot drops. The owner might be afraid of the bike now, or he's decided to move on to the latest/greatest since the SS bikes are on about a 2-3 year product cycle.

Make sure to pay attention to the fork seals. Look for signs of drips, or dried caking oil. Slamming down from a wheelie is hard on the front end, no matter WHAT bike it is.

Check the chain and sprockets for wear and tear. Most people are VERY neglectful of their chains. Worn sprockets or stuck links can be a sign of neglect.

Check the oil. I'm immediately suspicious of anything honey colored. If they are trying to sell it, why is the oil fresh? Also check for a burned smell.

You are in a better position financially if you are going to pay cash. Make sure they have a CLEAR title in hand. If they give you some BS about pay off from the bank, walk. If you are going to finance the bike... you'll need some trust that the dealership is selling you something that isn't a lemon.

[curseboy]

I would say in general, that every used bike comes with liabilities, and that good deals will come and go. Rushing into buying may just cause you lots of headaches.

As long as the previous owner kept up with the maintenance and didn't mess around with things he didn't know (like carbs) you can expect a bike to be reasonably reliable.

Don't take this the wrong way, but upgrading to a 1000 after 6 months of riding......maybe be a bit too much too soon.

[Syndacate]

You have to read the owner. If you show up and the guy is 45, talks about when he used to ride BSA's when he was younger, he talks about how meticulous he was with maintenance, etc then probably the bike has been taken care of. If he has been riding for a lot of years, then probably the bike was taken care of (careless riders just don't last that long). Look at the guy's house, if it is well taken care of, if the cars are well taken care of, etc then the bike will probably be the same. Of course most sport bikes are ridden fast, but that doesn't mean they were abused. A modern sport bike can be ridden incredibly fast without even breaking a sweat.

Stuff like a stunt cage, 12 bar, REALLY short gearing (like a 50+ tooth back sprocket), etc is a sign that you should take care, because the bike has probably been beaten.

If you're unable to get a feel for the owner, then use your best sense. If it's making a lot of noise like valves haven't been adjusted in 20k miles, then they probably haven't. Look at the oil, is it obviously ancient? Sprockets worn into saw teeth? Ever been down (you have to look for signs of this)?

Buying vehicles (motorcycle or otherwise) is a partially objective and partially subjective process. Use ALL of the information and observations to make a decision. No, there is no "abuse meter" on a bike, but with careful consideration of EVERYTHING you see, you should be able to get some idea of how the bike was treated.

Thanks, I'll be sure to do my best to read the guy. There's no excessive stuff on it, so that's out - just the fender eliminator, claims it's never been down.

How do you tell if the oil hasn't been changed in awhile? In my experience (with cars) oil goes in amber, 10 miles later it's black...and that pretty much goes for all cars..

Only thing I know to look for in the sprocket is if it's waved, but that's just chain tension, also to see if the chain looks lubed, or if it was dry. I'll look for saw teeth too.

What do you mean when you listen to the valves? Just to see if they're ticking..or is there something else..? If it's a 40 year old man then it probably wasn't beaten around, but on the flipside, does that mean if it's a 25 year old kid, it was? I don't know - probably..

I'm nervous about the miles, but I'm thinking if I want a better performing bike in good condition, that has to be sacrificed.

The way I see it it's just like the aftermarket parts dilemma:
- Mileage
- Condition
- Performance

Pick 2.

Chicken stripes on the tires would be nice.

Indeed. Though he said the tires were just changed 200 miles ago, so, he just may have not been hitting the twisties recently.

There are also tell tale signs of wear - such as condition of shifter levers, foot pegs, side cases, etc. If the oil is black, the air filter dirty, and the oil filter looks like it's never been changed, walk away.

What would go wrong with the foot pegs & shift lever? I can't even see the air filter on my Kat without taking the fairings off, lol. Also, if it's anything like a car the oil will be black or damn near it after 100 miles of driving.

http://www.motorcycleanchor.com/moto...uyingused.html

GSXRs and R1's are almost commodity bikes anymore. There's lots of them out there, and lots of them that have been abused.

Make sure you check into insurance prices before you purchase one or you may find yourself with a payment you can't swallow.

Really? For a bike? It was like $200 for the year for minimal coverage on my kat...will a GSXR really break the bank?

I'll look a the link.

The "average" idiot doesn't really know how to ride, and does less than 1000 miles per season. I see these bikes all the time. Big old chicken strips with cords showing on the middle two inches. The bike has probably been in a few low speed/parking lot drops. The owner might be afraid of the bike now, or he's decided to move on to the latest/greatest since the SS bikes are on about a 2-3 year product cycle.

Yeah, you probably got a point there.

Make sure to pay attention to the fork seals. Look for signs of drips, or dried caking oil. Slamming down from a wheelie is hard on the front end, no matter WHAT bike it is.

Good point, I'll make sure I investigate.

Check the chain and sprockets for wear and tear. Most people are VERY neglectful of their chains. Worn sprockets or stuck links can be a sign of neglect.

Yeah, I was going to look for wavey sprockets, correct chain tension, etc. Anything else about the chains/sprockets?

Check the oil. I'm immediately suspicious of anything honey colored. If they are trying to sell it, why is the oil fresh? Also check for a burned smell.

Well they might just be straight up...like I know when I'm going to sell my Kat I'm going to change the oil right before I do, just so I can put it in the ad there "brake fluid & oil just changed" - or something to that effect. It's hard to tell if he's trying to cover something up or just make a good sale.

You are in a better position financially if you are going to pay cash. Make sure they have a CLEAR title in hand. If they give you some BS about pay off from the bank, walk. If you are going to finance the bike... you'll need some trust that the dealership is selling you something that isn't a lemon.

Yeah, he said he has a clear title in hand. If he lied I'm walking.

I would say in general, that every used bike comes with liabilities, and that good deals will come and go. Rushing into buying may just cause you lots of headaches.

Yeah, I would definitely say buying a used bike in perfect 100% condition all around is incredibly hard to come by.

My dad is concerned that I may be rushing, I don't know, I don't feel I am, but the time window is limited for it being a buyer's market right now due to the end of riding season. Though if I don't sense anything is wrong with it, no signs of wear, test drives 100%, etc., I see no reason the deal can't be made same day. Is that rushing? I don't know..

As long as the previous owner kept up with the maintenance and didn't mess around with things he didn't know (like carbs) you can expect a bike to be reasonably reliable.

Yeah, from what I gather it was the previous owner who put 10k on it in one season (last). He said he's selling because he can use the money. Putting 10k on in one season probably means the previous owner knew what he was doing, was an enthusiast, and kept the maintenance up...but I could be wrong, it's just a probability statement.

Don't take this the wrong way, but upgrading to a 1000 after 6 months of riding......maybe be a bit too much too soon.

You may be right, then again, everybody told me a 750 for a first bike is a bit too much too soon, especially for a starter bike.

I'm not going to claim to be an experienced rider or anything, I'm not, but I'm heavy. About 280lbs. This means that the bike isn't quite as fast when I'm aboard. Some people will say that the difference is negligible but I HIGHLY disagree. I really want to make the jump to fuel injection, and the way I see it, a liter bike in my hands, would probably be the equivalent of a 600R in a 150lb guy's hands in terms of power.

As for keeping it under wraps, I'm well aware what these bikes can do if rode carelessly, I can only say that knowing that, I know (or should know) what I can and can't do - ie. my first rolling race in the Kat, I knew I wasn't comfortable with a first gear pull, so I did a 3rd gear pull..ended up costing me the race (damn turbos) - not by much - (kinda ****ed me off, too, b/c he let off at like 90 and he had to be running out of 3rd, if he had put it into 4th it was so close and I was just hitting like 8 or 9k that I would have ripped passed him when he shifted, my power would have gone up by a lot, his would have dropped by a lot..). So even in the heat of the moment I recognize the power of the bike. Just a note on that - I don't make a regular practice out of racing, just a friendly rolling race against my friend in a private area with owner consent.

That segway aside, I think the key is simply realizing what the bike can actually do (youtube helps in this respect). Knowing damn well that I can't handle all the power of that thing, and that it has 65% more power than the Kat and a shorter wheel base, should keep me in check mentally.

My weight plays a huge difference though, so it's not as fast as it should be, not by a LONG shot.

That all being said, warning taken, and not discarded, do know that. Though this thread is more about purchasing, I guess tell-tale signs of wear is part of it, but the majority aiming at if that 24k is really "240k", why bikes don't last as long as cars, what "goes" on them first - where's the weak link, etc.

This bike is pretty much what I've been looking for, and I think the price is reasonable too.
So I reference one of my questions in my OP:

What's the highest you'd pay for an '03 GSX-R 1000 with 24k, claimed perfect condition, clean title, runs perfect?

I feel this could be a very good bike for me, but this fear has been injected into me since day 1 that bikes are only good for 30k or so..I'm not sure why, or how, maybe it's just mass spreads of incorrect information, but the mileage scares the **** out of me, but I need to get over that, as that's the compromise choice I'm taking for performance and a good body.

Thanks for your guys's thoughts/opinions thus far, I really appreciate it, as with my Dad's lecture, I'm even MORE concerned than I previously was :-\.

[jetmerritt]

How do you tell if the oil hasn't been changed in awhile? In my experience (with cars) oil goes in amber, 10 miles later it's black...and that pretty much goes for all cars..

Umm, OLD cars maybe. Any car under 60K miles should stay fairly clean for a couple thousand miles. My 2005 vibe, the oil would look like the day I put the oil in with 10,000Kms on it - all hwy k's.

My Kat will oil will stay pretty clean until 2000Kms on the oil.

Most diesels turn the oil black as soon as it's flashed up but a healthy gas engine the oil should stay clean a while...

IMHO

I take good care of my stuff and put high quality oil & filters in them though.

[loudnlow7484]

Thanks, I'll be sure to do my best to read the guy. There's no excessive stuff on it, so that's out - just the fender eliminator, claims it's never been down.

How do you tell if the oil hasn't been changed in awhile? In my experience (with cars) oil goes in amber, 10 miles later it's black...and that pretty much goes for all cars..

Only thing I know to look for in the sprocket is if it's waved, but that's just chain tension, also to see if the chain looks lubed, or if it was dry. I'll look for saw teeth too.

What do you mean when you listen to the valves? Just to see if they're ticking..or is there something else..? If it's a 40 year old man then it probably wasn't beaten around, but on the flipside, does that mean if it's a 25 year old kid, it was? I don't know - probably..

My oil (in all of my bikes and cars, actually) gets dark really quickly, but it doesn't turn black as tar for several thousand miles. It also gets noticeably thinner as the miles go on for too long.

On really badly worn sprockets the teeth are pointy and have sort of a hook shape to them, making them look like teeth on a circular saw.

On valves..... modern engines like that are actually very quiet. If it sounds like the Kat does (rattly and mechanical), then it's an issue. You shouldn't hear the valve clatter like you do on the oil-cooled engines.

The age thing doesn't necessarily work like that. Sorry, there is no flowchart for this. If the 25 year old kid has an SV track bike in the garage, and you're looking at buying the 848 that he keeps in his living room, you're probably ok, and if the 40 year old guy has it under a tarp in the backyard claiming he can't ride it because the police might be looking for him, then it's time to walk away.

You know what, the truth is that it might be easier for you to just take somebody with you that really knows their stuff.

[curseboy]

As far as "needing" a liter bike because of weight and size.....I've seen some really big boys on 600s move quite fast. I wasn't there, but my friends tell me of one time a huuuuuuge dude with "spaceboy" written on his leathers ruined them at the track on his 600.

[scottynoface]

Lol, you need a 1k after 6 months because you're fat? That's one of the worst arguments I've ever heard.


Either you ride like a grandma, have no idea how to ride, or are a bike night guy. Either way, you're not making a good decision. You do realize that the katana 750 is slow as hell compared to a real 750 sportbike like the gsxr right? As in embarassingly slower...

[Syndacate]

Umm, OLD cars maybe. Any car under 60K miles should stay fairly clean for a couple thousand miles. My 2005 vibe, the oil would look like the day I put the oil in with 10,000Kms on it - all hwy k's.

I don't think I've owned any cars under 80k .

My Kat will oil will stay pretty clean until 2000Kms on the oil.

Mine's dark honey, not quite black, 2500mi on it. But then again, there's only 5500 or so on it.

Most diesels turn the oil black as soon as it's flashed up but a healthy gas engine the oil should stay clean a while...

IMHO

I take good care of my stuff and put high quality oil & filters in them though.

I do the same, and yes, diesel is black almost instantly.

I suppose I don't see the color because I typically don't look at my car's oil 1000 miles after changing it. Only really check on long trips or if I notice a plume - something obvious. That's probably neglect on my part, but short of a long trip, it typically doesn't get looked at until 3k, where it's black. I know it doesn't burn oil so I don't check otherwise :-\.

My oil (in all of my bikes and cars, actually) gets dark really quickly, but it doesn't turn black as tar for several thousand miles. It also gets noticeably thinner as the miles go on for too long.

I never let my cars get above 4k on oil, even when using the 5k mile claimed oil - haven't seen it go thin, I don't think.

On really badly worn sprockets the teeth are pointy and have sort of a hook shape to them, making them look like teeth on a circular saw.

So the "waved" teeth are the same as the "saw" teeth (I'm having trouble finding pictures to match these definitions O.o)?

On valves..... modern engines like that are actually very quiet. If it sounds like the Kat does (rattly and mechanical), then it's an issue. You shouldn't hear the valve clatter like you do on the oil-cooled engines.

I don't hear any clatter or tick in my Kat - is that a problem? The only thing I get from my Kat besides the exhaust note is a louder and more abrasive sounding note (compared to more modern fuel injected models)..but I'm assuming that's just due to carbs...

The age thing doesn't necessarily work like that. Sorry, there is no flowchart for this. If the 25 year old kid has an SV track bike in the garage, and you're looking at buying the 848 that he keeps in his living room, you're probably ok, and if the 40 year old guy has it under a tarp in the backyard claiming he can't ride it because the police might be looking for him, then it's time to walk away.

You know what, the truth is that it might be easier for you to just take somebody with you that really knows their stuff.

Yeah, I got the obvious signs, either way, lol. There's obviously exceptions, no straight up age bracket, which I was simply pointing out.

As for taking somebody with me - I would if I had anybody I could. Kind of shoe-horned my way into the biking community by reading, asking for favors, etc.

As far as "needing" a liter bike because of weight and size.....I've seen some really big boys on 600s move quite fast. I wasn't there, but my friends tell me of one time a huuuuuuge dude with "spaceboy" written on his leathers ruined them at the track on his 600.

Tracks are different than straights, though. A lot more finesse goes into taking a car or bike around the track than straight line racing. Sure, if he's been doing it awhile I'm sure he can definitely have the technique, but in the straights he'd be downed and outed.

I found this out at my first autocross event . As did my friend, who's car is pushing a nice 200 on a 2800lb chassis. Driving in a straight line, even with hookup problems is a lot less finesse and technique IMO than track driving.

Lol, you need a 1k after 6 months because you're fat? That's one of the worst arguments I've ever heard.

Apparently you haven't heard any of my other award winning arguments, then . No, I don't *need* it anymore than I need a new bike (at all). It's more-so simply that I want to upgrade, I see it like this:
- I'd like to upgrade to fuel injection & a sportier chassis
- A CBR600 or GSX-R 600 would probably be slightly faster than the Katana, is this enough to justify buying a whole new bike?
- Absolutely not, go big or go home.
- Get the 1300 (I want the Busa more than...just about anything).
- I can't afford the Busa.
- Get a liter bike.

That was pretty much my thought process. It's quite simple, with a liter bike, and me on it, I should be able to beat (or at least keep with) 600/some 750cc sport bikes in the hands of lightweights. If I were to go with a 600 or 750cc sport bike, I would hardly be able to justify it.

I've ridden the two side by side on the same roads and the CBR600F4I has about 8 more HP at the crank IIRC...and it certainly only does feel like 8 more HP. Doesn't feel like much of a difference at all. That being said, what good is an upgrade, if somebody who's 140lbs can hand me my *** with a CBR riding my Kat 750? The way I see it, it's not much of an upgrade if you can still get your *** handed to you by the bike you upgraded from...you'd have that problem with a 600 or 750...wouldn't have that problem with a liter bike. You get what I mean?

Either you ride like a grandma, have no idea how to ride, or are a bike night guy. Either way, you're not making a good decision. You do realize that the katana 750 is slow as hell compared to a real 750 sportbike like the gsxr right? As in embarassingly slower...

I don't believe I ride like a grandma, not in the least. I'd like to think I have an idea how to ride, but I'm sure some people would disagree, and I can't care less about bike nights - not my thing.

Would you really go as far as to say embarrassingly slower? Obviously they're slower, I would most definitely agree, but embarrassingly? I wouldn't. The Kat 750 is by no means a sport bike, but it does have balls, it gets up and moves quite well when it needs to. Refer to the 2 paragraphs up when I speak about my rationale behind upgrading and when I believe an upgrade is rendered useless. To me an upgrade is useless (in any respect) if its predecessor could hand it its ***.

A light weight on my Kat750 as is (K&N filters, jet kit, and full exhaust) would put me down like its their job if I was on a GSX-R 750 - that part is fact.

[DClark]

As far as "needing" a liter bike because of weight and size.....I've seen some really big boys on 600s move quite fast. I wasn't there, but my friends tell me of one time a huuuuuuge dude with "spaceboy" written on his leathers ruined them at the track on his 600.

Dunno about that- I used to see a 300lb+ guy riding around on a zx11, wonder how he'd fit/get off the line on a 600?
I love liter bikes, love the power, that's all I'll ride, but that's me.
If I was looking at used bike now, I'd go visit it early in the morning when it is nice and cold. Make sure bike is cold, start her up. If it had worn rings/valves (from abuse/and or neglect) you'll probably be greeted with a little blue smoke. If you see that, thank the guy for your time and enjoy the rest of the day.
Getting back to what mileage is a lot, it used to be not much. I have heard of air cooled bikes needing valve work at 30k miles, water cooled bikes faired better. The only non water cooled inline fours that really could be said to be long lived, from what i have seen, were the suzuki's. I have no idea how long a modern bike can last, but like they say, it really is in the maintenance.