[paradoxmd]

as long as lane splitting is illegal, i'm not going to do it. but if it does become legal you can bet i'll be one of the first - in a matter that is consistant with the law. cagers can think i'm a jackass all they want, but if i'm not breaking the law, too bad.

[tdrcomm]

Since I got warned about this in Vegas and pulled over in Tennesee last summer because I forgot, AND I live in SoCal I can speak to this and put a few misconceptions to rest.

There is a distinction between "LANE-SPLITTING" and "LANE-SHARING".

LANE-SHARING is legal in Cali. Glad that is is, too. The rule is you are allowed to PASS a moving vehicle WITHIN the lane provided there is room WITHOUT crossing the divider line. Most, if not all, lanes in Cali (at least SoCal) are more than wide enough to accomodate. Riding along side at the same speed is ILLEGAL and STUPIDLY STUPID. It is for passing only. If you're on the freeway you must not lane-share faster than the posted speed limit. Rule of thumb as was told to me by a CHP officer is: "No more than 10 mph faster than the traffic as long as traffic is moving less than 45 mph. At 50 it is advisable to merge into the lane with the rest of the traffic." That is a common sense rule - there is no rule to that effect on the books.

You kinda have to understand how the freeway system works out here.
There are two speeds:
1) 80+ on an eight-lane I-405, or,
2) 15- on an eight-lane I-405

During the former (when the CHP will pass you at 90 and wave) there is no possible need to lane-share. During the latter, outside of the carpool lane (which we can legally use) it's a freaking blessing. The cars are bumper-to-bumper and 35 - 40 may seem fast but when everyone else is going 30 it's not fast at all.

LANE-SPLITTING is something totally different and dangerous at speed.
Lane-splitting is where you ride the divider line, crossing back and forth. This is usually done at squid-speed. You know, 90+, immediatly followed by a wheelie, and a nice red skidmark. Lane-splitting is what most people (cagers included) think of when they see someone lane-sharing. The only time lane-splitting is permitted is when traffic is stopped at a light and you "split" the lane to get to the front. The law and most cars don't mind this because when the light turns green we're usually 10-15 car lengths ahead of any cars before they make it through the intersection.

The problem that most drivers (in Cali and elsewhere) have with splitting or sharing is that they're "surprised" by the bike zooming by way over the speed limit. The fact is the majority of bikes that share are actually UNDER THE LIMIT. The only reason we're splitting, er... sharing is because traffic has suddenly become a standstill. We slow, then go around. It seems like we're doing NASCAR speed because of - here it comes - DRIVER INATTENTIVENESS.

Try this the next time you ride: Hang back out of the killzone and watch the side mirror of the car in the next lane and notice how many times they check their mirrors. Most only use them when they are about to change lanes or turn. I followed behind a guy on the 91 Freeway for 5 miles and he didn't check his mirror once! Just as a test I dropped down to 5th and did a 80 - 100 roll-on. We weren't lane-sharing, both had our own lanes and minimum traffic. When I blew past him I checked my right mirror and was surprised to see that he had moved over to the far right side of his lane after I passed. I WASN'T EVEN NEAR HIM AND I SURPRISED HIM ENOUGH TO MOVE! Now imagine the same guy talking on his cell, yelling at the kids in the back seat, messing with the CD player or generally not paying attention. Even if he's doing 25 and I lane-share past him at 35 it's going to freak him out. First thing out of his mouth, "I hate these damn, dangerous, motorcycles splitting the lanes at 100 mph!" Sorry Buddy, It only FELT that way. Had you been paying attention like you were taught in Drivers' Education you would have saw me. I sure as hell saw you!

As far as the jealously goes, I don't think there's that much in Cali because we're used to it. BP is right, we've been sharing for over 20 - 25 years now. Most of them wish they could be like us. The ones doing the biggest amount of complaining are the "transplants" who are still frustrated and pissed off trying to figure out this mess we call the freeway system. They aren't familiar with the DMV laws and think we're getting away with something. The shock-jocks in NoCal that pissed off half the state by advocating opening doors on bikers because they thought we were getting away with something admitted as much in their apology (retards, anyway).

Oh, and the incidents where you hear about all of these wonderful Cali drivers squeezing over to give us room to zoom by... uh... there are only two types of drivers that do that:
1) Other riders in a cage for the day, and,
2) Hell, this is LA! You think some $28,000 a year administrative assistant (er... exotic dancer) is going to risk getting a scratch on her $60,000 Lexus???

[Crackshot]

I don't lane split or lane share, but If you open your door to stop me if for some reason I do, I am going to move my bike up so that you can't close your door and then either A) Beat the unholy hell out of you or B) Beat the unholy hell out of you.

[Kat-A-Tonic]

In Europe, lane sharing (or splitting) is not only encouraged but expected. In fact, studies have shown that in countries that adopt lane sharing have marginally better accident rates for motorcycles as they are not forced to be embedded in the thick of traffic. Although motorcycles are vehicles and should generally follow the rules of the road, they are not like other vehicles so allowances can be made for their inherent differences.

[The CyberPoet]

In Europe, lane sharing (or splitting) is not only encouraged but expected.

And it makes sense on a purely logical basis to support it (one devoid of bikers-are-bad/good mentality):
1. Less fuel is consumed if fewer vehicles are sitting idling or driving along in a rolling traffic-jam;
2. Less pollution is created if less fuel is consumed (good for the general health of the area and of the planet in the bigger picture), plus fumes are disipated faster if at least some of the traffic is moving;
3. Fewer vehicles waiting in the que tends to make traffic jams and back-ups dissipate faster;
4. It encourages cagers to consider purchasing motorcycles to get the same benefits (which decreases the total number of cages on the road at any given time, thus decreasing the back-ups in general, the fuel-consumption as a whole and the pollution levels as a whole).

On a more personal level, it simply boils down to this in my mind:
Just because you have to sit in this traffic back-up in your [air conditioned] cage, getting frustrated over being unable to move (and over taking an hour to cover what should be a 12 to 15 minute trip), I shouldn't have to do the same if I don't have to -- and if you want the same advantages, go get a bike yourself instead of venting your frustrations at me for not sharing your plight.

That doesn't change the fact that lane-splitting pisses many cagers off, even in countries like the UK where it's 100% legal and you are expected to do it...

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[tnvatdreamland]

I agree with Black Peter...

8. I best be out cold after hitting your door or your looking at a
ICON "brow beating"...

and

2. Fellow Katriders will hunt you down.. No matter where you move to

If you intensionally knock me down...they better hope I can't get up, cause there will be an arse kicking.

[Jax]

DRIVER INATTENTIVENESS...thats what it boils down to....yes there are a few that zip by at above safe speeds...but if you weren't so busy messing with the radio, on your cell phone, eating, drinking your half caf-double latte, putting on your make-up, diddling yourself, yelling at your rug rats, picking your nose, brushing your hair, typing on your laptop (still boggles the mind), checking your pda, watching a movie (which is more dangerous than my splitting), looking at the map that covers your front windshield, f***ng around witht he dang gps because you forgot to set it before your trip or what ever else you do except PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR DRIVING ENVIRONMENT...Like I told my mother when she got on a rant about motorcycles being dangerous...she made the comment that I was going to get killed out there. I told her that a motorcycle was no more dangerous than a car. She got mad and said that that was a stupid statement because bikes were always getting hit by cars. I answered "So then motorcycles are dangerous because morons in cars don't know how to drive. So your saying that the reason my vehicle is dangerous is because YOU drive unsafe or are not paying attention to DRIVING?" She had no where to go. It was like a mouse caught in a cage. My sister piped up and said "You just hanged yourself with your own rope, mom." It stopped the rant...

[tdrcomm]

...Like I told my mother when she got on a rant about motorcycles being dangerous...she made the comment that I was going to get killed out there. I told her that a motorcycle was no more dangerous than a car. She got mad and said that that was a stupid statement because bikes were always getting hit by cars. I answered "So then motorcycles are dangerous because morons in cars don't know how to drive. So your saying that the reason my vehicle is dangerous is because YOU drive unsafe or are not paying attention to DRIVING?" She had no where to go. It was like a mouse caught in a cage. My sister piped up and said "You just hanged yourself with your own rope, mom." It stopped the rant...

You HAVE to hear this rant live, it's classic!

[skotty]

Since I got warned about this in Vegas and pulled over in Tennesee last summer because I forgot, AND I live in SoCal I can speak to this and put a few misconceptions to rest.

There is a distinction between "LANE-SPLITTING" and "LANE-SHARING".

LANE-SHARING is legal in Cali. Glad that is is, too. The rule is you are allowed to PASS a moving vehicle WITHIN the lane provided there is room WITHOUT crossing the divider line. Most, if not all, lanes in Cali (at least SoCal) are more than wide enough to accomodate. Riding along side at the same speed is ILLEGAL and STUPIDLY STUPID. It is for passing only. If you're on the freeway you must not lane-share faster than the posted speed limit. Rule of thumb as was told to me by a CHP officer is: "No more than 10 mph faster than the traffic as long as traffic is moving less than 45 mph. At 50 it is advisable to merge into the lane with the rest of the traffic." That is a common sense rule - there is no rule to that effect on the books.

You kinda have to understand how the freeway system works out here.
There are two speeds:
1) 80+ on an eight-lane I-405, or,
2) 15- on an eight-lane I-405

During the former (when the CHP will pass you at 90 and wave) there is no possible need to lane-share. During the latter, outside of the carpool lane (which we can legally use) it's a freaking blessing. The cars are bumper-to-bumper and 35 - 40 may seem fast but when everyone else is going 30 it's not fast at all.

LANE-SPLITTING is something totally different and dangerous at speed.
Lane-splitting is where you ride the divider line, crossing back and forth. This is usually done at squid-speed. You know, 90+, immediatly followed by a wheelie, and a nice red skidmark. Lane-splitting is what most people (cagers included) think of when they see someone lane-sharing. The only time lane-splitting is permitted is when traffic is stopped at a light and you "split" the lane to get to the front. The law and most cars don't mind this because when the light turns green we're usually 10-15 car lengths ahead of any cars before they make it through the intersection.

The problem that most drivers (in Cali and elsewhere) have with splitting or sharing is that they're "surprised" by the bike zooming by way over the speed limit. The fact is the majority of bikes that share are actually UNDER THE LIMIT. The only reason we're splitting, er... sharing is because traffic has suddenly become a standstill. We slow, then go around. It seems like we're doing NASCAR speed because of - here it comes - DRIVER INATTENTIVENESS.

Try this the next time you ride: Hang back out of the killzone and watch the side mirror of the car in the next lane and notice how many times they check their mirrors. Most only use them when they are about to change lanes or turn. I followed behind a guy on the 91 Freeway for 5 miles and he didn't check his mirror once! Just as a test I dropped down to 5th and did a 80 - 100 roll-on. We weren't lane-sharing, both had our own lanes and minimum traffic. When I blew past him I checked my right mirror and was surprised to see that he had moved over to the far right side of his lane after I passed. I WASN'T EVEN NEAR HIM AND I SURPRISED HIM ENOUGH TO MOVE! Now imagine the same guy talking on his cell, yelling at the kids in the back seat, messing with the CD player or generally not paying attention. Even if he's doing 25 and I lane-share past him at 35 it's going to freak him out. First thing out of his mouth, "I hate these damn, dangerous, motorcycles splitting the lanes at 100 mph!" Sorry Buddy, It only FELT that way. Had you been paying attention like you were taught in Drivers' Education you would have saw me. I sure as hell saw you!

As far as the jealously goes, I don't think there's that much in Cali because we're used to it. BP is right, we've been sharing for over 20 - 25 years now. Most of them wish they could be like us. The ones doing the biggest amount of complaining are the "transplants" who are still frustrated and pissed off trying to figure out this mess we call the freeway system. They aren't familiar with the DMV laws and think we're getting away with something. The shock-jocks in NoCal that pissed off half the state by advocating opening doors on bikers because they thought we were getting away with something admitted as much in their apology (retards, anyway).

Oh, and the incidents where you hear about all of these wonderful Cali drivers squeezing over to give us room to zoom by... uh... there are only two types of drivers that do that:
1) Other riders in a cage for the day, and,
2) Hell, this is LA! You think some $28,000 a year administrative assistant (er... exotic dancer) is going to risk getting a scratch on her $60,000 Lexus???

Well put tdrcomm

[zenjim]

Since I got warned about this in Vegas and pulled over in Tennesee last summer because I forgot, AND I live in SoCal I can speak to this and put a few misconceptions to rest.

There is a distinction between "LANE-SPLITTING" and "LANE-SHARING".

LANE-SHARING is legal in Cali. Glad that is is, too. The rule is you are allowed to PASS a moving vehicle WITHIN the lane provided there is room WITHOUT crossing the divider line. Most, if not all, lanes in Cali (at least SoCal) are more than wide enough to accomodate. Riding along side at the same speed is ILLEGAL and STUPIDLY STUPID. It is for passing only. If you're on the freeway you must not lane-share faster than the posted speed limit. Rule of thumb as was told to me by a CHP officer is: "No more than 10 mph faster than the traffic as long as traffic is moving less than 45 mph. At 50 it is advisable to merge into the lane with the rest of the traffic." That is a common sense rule - there is no rule to that effect on the books.

You kinda have to understand how the freeway system works out here.
There are two speeds:
1) 80+ on an eight-lane I-405, or,
2) 15- on an eight-lane I-405

During the former (when the CHP will pass you at 90 and wave) there is no possible need to lane-share. During the latter, outside of the carpool lane (which we can legally use) it's a freaking blessing. The cars are bumper-to-bumper and 35 - 40 may seem fast but when everyone else is going 30 it's not fast at all.

LANE-SPLITTING is something totally different and dangerous at speed.
Lane-splitting is where you ride the divider line, crossing back and forth. This is usually done at squid-speed. You know, 90+, immediatly followed by a wheelie, and a nice red skidmark. Lane-splitting is what most people (cagers included) think of when they see someone lane-sharing. The only time lane-splitting is permitted is when traffic is stopped at a light and you "split" the lane to get to the front. The law and most cars don't mind this because when the light turns green we're usually 10-15 car lengths ahead of any cars before they make it through the intersection.

The problem that most drivers (in Cali and elsewhere) have with splitting or sharing is that they're "surprised" by the bike zooming by way over the speed limit. The fact is the majority of bikes that share are actually UNDER THE LIMIT. The only reason we're splitting, er... sharing is because traffic has suddenly become a standstill. We slow, then go around. It seems like we're doing NASCAR speed because of - here it comes - DRIVER INATTENTIVENESS.

Try this the next time you ride: Hang back out of the killzone and watch the side mirror of the car in the next lane and notice how many times they check their mirrors. Most only use them when they are about to change lanes or turn. I followed behind a guy on the 91 Freeway for 5 miles and he didn't check his mirror once! Just as a test I dropped down to 5th and did a 80 - 100 roll-on. We weren't lane-sharing, both had our own lanes and minimum traffic. When I blew past him I checked my right mirror and was surprised to see that he had moved over to the far right side of his lane after I passed. I WASN'T EVEN NEAR HIM AND I SURPRISED HIM ENOUGH TO MOVE! Now imagine the same guy talking on his cell, yelling at the kids in the back seat, messing with the CD player or generally not paying attention. Even if he's doing 25 and I lane-share past him at 35 it's going to freak him out. First thing out of his mouth, "I hate these damn, dangerous, motorcycles splitting the lanes at 100 mph!" Sorry Buddy, It only FELT that way. Had you been paying attention like you were taught in Drivers' Education you would have saw me. I sure as hell saw you!

As far as the jealously goes, I don't think there's that much in Cali because we're used to it. BP is right, we've been sharing for over 20 - 25 years now. Most of them wish they could be like us. The ones doing the biggest amount of complaining are the "transplants" who are still frustrated and pissed off trying to figure out this mess we call the freeway system. They aren't familiar with the DMV laws and think we're getting away with something. The shock-jocks in NoCal that pissed off half the state by advocating opening doors on bikers because they thought we were getting away with something admitted as much in their apology (retards, anyway).

Oh, and the incidents where you hear about all of these wonderful Cali drivers squeezing over to give us room to zoom by... uh... there are only two types of drivers that do that:
1) Other riders in a cage for the day, and,
2) Hell, this is LA! You think some $28,000 a year administrative assistant (er... exotic dancer) is going to risk getting a scratch on her $60,000 Lexus???

Amen

I'll just add that in (I think) Proficient Motorcycling it lists the percentage of riders that get hit while stopped behind a car and between lanes (splitting) and it's like 100 to 1.

[zenjim]

Didn't want to misquote Proficient Motorcycling, so here's the direct quote from page 213, "While I'm not aware of any formal traffic studies that would shed some statistical light on the relative risks of creeping vs. lane splitting, a Santa Barbara BMW club did an informal poll of some local CHP officers, who confirmed that there were a lot more rear-end accidents than lane-splitting accidents involving motorcycles."
I of coarse conflated this to a 100 to 1 ratio - wishful thinking for a lane splitter I suppose.

[Jax]

There should be a traffic study that focuses on lane splitting and accidents....I mean it is almost logical that if you lane split you have just reduced your chances of being rear ended by a car/truck/other vehicle..but in another thread some one stated that the problem with new riders is that not only do you have to watch out for cars/trucks but now you have to watch out for other cyclists....Ok maybe it was a conversation I had with tdrcomm??...ok I'm having and early senior moment...

[zenjim]

And why is it that when I'm sitting in traffic in my car there is a Moses-parting-the-Red-Sea like gap that I could drive a Mini Cooper through, yet when I'm on the bike the cars are rearview to rearview, crossing lanes and leaving so little room Nicole Ritchie on a skateboard couldn't get through?

[tdrcomm]

And why is it that when I'm sitting in traffic in my car there is a Moses-parting-the-Red-Sea like gap that I could drive a Mini Cooper through, yet when I'm on the bike the cars are rearview to rearview, crossing lanes and leaving so little room Nicole Ritchie on a skateboard couldn't get through?

So true, so true.