[Kreylyn]

if you make use of the post carrier, doesn't that give issues with the brake rotors and the caliper?

No.

The caliper is spaced by position of the caliper bracket. The caliper bracket is spaced by the axle spacer that is placed between it and the wheel. What happens on the left side of the wheel has no affect on the right side in that way.

Krey

[91_gsx600F katana]

What I find that is odd is that the sprocket is pushed closer to the spring arm. Even tho the wheel is wider it still pushes it in the wrong direction in my head. I wonder how it will look when it's all mounted.

But for those running pre carriers u might want to pick up a post carrier.

[91_gsx600F katana]

Well heres an update guys... its been interesting to say the least! I have a feeling that the post carrier/hub was a bad choice. you can see in the pic I posted earlier that it pushes the sprocket closer to the swing arm. Today I figured out how close that actually was. But I dont think the pre carrier will offer enough clearance from the wheel and I might get chain rub on the tire.

I installed the wheel with the stock Pre wheel spacer on the sprocket side and this was just to mock up to see what needed to be done (swing arm was not stretched yet) so see pic of how close the sprocket nuts are to the swing arm!!! it was prob 1mm . So I put a bottle jack in the swing arm to stretch it out about 1/4" as Krey instructed. Did that! Now I made my own spacer with some 1/2" steel washers that where the same OD of the stock spacer and drilled out the centers to 5/8" or 17mm. I welded them together with a few spot welds (see pic). I then put the it all back in and see what it did.

now here are my issues.

1.) the wheel is not centered in the swing arm when I have the chain adjusters at the same markings. its always closer on the right side and barely touches the swing arm, left side has lots of clearance. When I adjust the wheel clearances judging by the tires distance from the swing arm on either side to make it even on both sides... it takes about 2 markings difference (on the chain adjusters) to make it even, so basically I need to adjust the left of the wheel more to compensate. Basically makes me think I didn't get the swing arm stretched evenly lol. Is this ok? There is maybe 3/16" clearance from the tire to the swing arm... is that enough? The wheel was fitted without the chain for mockup and will prob sit back alittle farther with the chain installed thus giving it alittle more clearance.

2.)Once I get the wheel centered (stated above) the brake support arm just barely touches the tire, To cut the stock bracket off would be a PITA with it still installed on the bike. I thought about it and figured out that I can offset the support arm to give me about 3/16" clearance by moving the arm to the inside (pushing it over about 1/8") see pic! Do you guys think that will be okay? I would make up the distance on the outside with washers and I dont think this compromises the strength all that much. Let me know what you think.

3.) it looks like with the swing arm stretched and the larger spacer that my stock axle is too short! I cant get enough thread engagement to have the cotter pin hole exposed to use it. What can I do with this? I though about deleting the thick spacer on the right side to bring it in alittle but Im unsure if that is okay (maybe use a thinner one if possible).

[91_gsx600F katana]

Here is how the tire sits mocked up

[Kreylyn]

From what I can see in the pictures...

1. I looks to me like the left arm moved, but the right was not when widening it. This could make the wheel sit to the left, touch the left arm, and be part of the reason it doesn't seem right. I'm thinking this because the bend on the left side arm OEM actually cuts back towards the wheel. Yours look straight or parallel to the straight line of the center of the bike. Maybe just the pic, but... I'd check your bends. First thing I would confirm is the center of the wheel is on the center line of the bike. THAT needs to be fixed regardless of the adjustments you have made already to the arm.

2. The side chain adjustment marks are general purpose, but are no way exact and should not be used as exact. Now that you have modified the arms, it's very likely they are even more off then they were to start with. OEM swings arms will have those marks out of alignment by as much as 1/8" before adjustments. Use a chain alignment tool or measure the axle to pivot point of the swingarm center/center.

3. The pre axle should work with only an adjustment of 1/4". If your spacing is a touch more than that after all is said and done, then you can drill another hole for the pin in the axle if you have room, or you can consider swapping out to the post axle.

4. I would not do the brake arm that way. You have a welder... this is simple. Pull the arm off (really, this is simple to do...). Cut the mounting bracket for the brake arm off the swingarm. Hacksaw will work, bandsaw works better, plasma is a bit too much... Once cut off, weld it right back on slightly moved to give you the clearance you want. I suggest putting the wheel on, caliper bracket/caliper on the siwngarm, put the brake arm on the cut off part, line up where you want the clearance to be... tack weld it in place. Put the arm on the bike, double check you have clearance with the subframe with the brake arm and mounting hardware in place by swinging it all the way up (no shock or linkage in place yet)... once confirmed good, weld fully in place. Paint. Your done with that.

While the arm is off,... fyi... it makes it really easy to verify the arm is properly adjusted to center the wheel. I would put the wheel on with all hardware... center of the pivot tube on the swingarm should match center of the wheel. A T square will show you this really easily. If the wheel is not centered, you simply adjust the arms to move it back center.

FYI... almost every swingarm I've had come into my shop unmodified and off the used bikes... has been slightly off center from use. This may contribute to the reasons that the marks never perfectly line up. Your going to see some variances.

Also, when you look at measurements... use a base line of "bike center line". Parts between may differ between the years on how the sit together. For example, the actual sprocket distance = the same between both bikes. If your seeing a variance in a specific parts such as the carrier, then they also will sit differently in their wheels which will put the sprocket in the same distance from center line.

I was already aware that the pre carrier rubbed on the post wheel, and is why I recomended keeping pre/post parts together for this. The differences you point out would explain why the pre carrier rubs the wheel... because the post carrier sits further in to correctly align the sprocket. So... again, I suggest you use the post carrier.

Finally... if the pre carrier is not sitting correctly in the wheel and is rubbing, that would mean the parts are not properly seating causing thing to not be properly aligned... Simply put, it would be like adding a random spacer between the carrier and wheel adding to the over all width.

This may be why your axle is too short and you have more than 1/4" actual spread.


Krey

[91_gsx600F katana]

I rly didn't want to pull the swingarm. I've never done one before. Any special tools I need and how hard is it?

I was looking at the brake arm mount on the swing arm and I will only be able to slide it over maybe 1/8" as its pretty close to the edge as Is.

[Kreylyn]

I rly didn't want to pull the swingarm. I've never done one before. Any special tools I need and how hard is it?

I was looking at the brake arm mount on the swing arm and I will only be able to slide it over maybe 1/8" as its pretty close to the edge as Is.

2 bolts and the whole assembly slides right out.

It's really not hard and no special tools needed.

As for the arm mount, your thinking of keeping it in the same location just moving it out. You have a angled arm... move it forward/backwards just a tad on that angle, and suddently you find you have lots of adjustment you can make for clearance.

The caliper bracket already is designed to pivot around the axle... so moving it a few mm forward or backwards is going to have no real change but give you clearance you need.

krey

[91_gsx600F katana]

Ok, Ill see what i can do!! lol. I just pop out the plastic ( i think they are) covers in the frame and the bolts are there?

Now when the swing arm is out I think Im going to modify the dog bones, shorten them 3/8" so I can raise the rear. Then I was also thinking of making a bolt on/weld on extension for the rear shock (upper mount) to lower the mounting point like an inch... this would give me even more of a raise on the rear. THis is like simulating a longer shock, but the angle of the new upper mount will change the geometry of the shock and its leverage. So in a way i would have to keep the same angle of the shock as well. Any opinions?

[Kreylyn]

Ok, Ill see what i can do!! lol. I just pop out the plastic ( i think they are) covers in the frame and the bolts are there?

Now when the swing arm is out I think Im going to modify the dog bones, shorten them 3/8" so I can raise the rear. Then I was also thinking of making a bolt on/weld on extension for the rear shock (upper mount) to lower the mounting point like an inch... this would give me even more of a raise on the rear. THis is like simulating a longer shock, but the angle of the new upper mount will change the geometry of the shock and its leverage. So in a way i would have to keep the same angle of the shock as well. Any opinions?

Before you weld anything, make sure you remove the spring from the shock then mount it and double check your range of motion does not put hard parts into hard parts, then put the spring back on and check your spring is going to clear the swingarm when it actuates as well.

If you check all that... you probably will be fine.

Krey

[91_gsx600F katana]

How can I remove the spring? the R6 shock has a funky adjuster and the spring is under a good bit of pressure already it looks like its about through 1/2 its range of preload adjustment. Getting a tool for this to do it once is not really on my list of things I need to get lol.

If the rear has been lifted as much as Im hoping to do it with the better all around R6 shock valving and higher spring rate would I even have to worry about things like the brake arm etc hitting anything?

[Kreylyn]

How can I remove the spring? the R6 shock has a funky adjuster and the spring is under a good bit of pressure already it looks like its about through 1/2 its range of preload adjustment. Getting a tool for this to do it once is not really on my list of things I need to get lol.

If the rear has been lifted as much as Im hoping to do it with the better all around R6 shock valving and higher spring rate would I even have to worry about things like the brake arm etc hitting anything?

If your modding things like changing mounting points, different shock, changing length of the links, and so on all around the same time... it's very possible you may end up with a nice configuration that just flat out wont' work. What happens when you get it all together and find out that when you sit on the bike the shock seats against the swingarm and it won't move any further?... for example.

My suggestions were to point you in a direction that might save you alot of problems. I suggest if your going to modify things, you invest in doing it right and checking your work before putting it all back together.

Trust me... even with the amount of knowledge I have from working on/owning multiples of these bikes, as soon as I get a bit self indulgent and don't check something... it bites me in the ass.

Sometimes you can find/borrow tools that will make this easier instead of having to out right purchase them. Other times, the tools are cheap enough to invest in and sell them later on, or just realize you want to keep for the next possible project.

Krey

[91_gsx600F katana]

I gotcha Krey. THanks for all you help. Gona see what I can get done this weekend.

are there any good write ups on swing arm removal? the plastic plugs int the frame for the swing arm bolt just pops out?

[Dirk130]

The plugs come right out. just use a small flat screwdiver to pop them.

[Dirk130]

Pre carrier, post wheel with all the original parts.

[91_gsx600F katana]

Yea man I got the whole bike dissasembled in about 1 hour the other nite. Swing arm, rear shock and pivot, dog bones off. Going to shorten the dog bones and then make a rear shock lowering tab then figure out the rear brake arm mounting.

You can see how close your seal/bearing seal is to the swing arm. Honestly I Dnt see the post or pre carrier helping as the pre will give u the clearance for the sprocket bolts to the swing arm compared to the post carrier. They are exactly the same in every other way. The thing that is needed is the spacer on the axle between the swingarm and the carrier.

You seal looks Wayyyy to close lol.