types of paint

[maikhorma]

sorry if this has been discussed before, but i couldn't find quite what i was looking for.

A while ago i bought a cheap hvlp gun for a project i never ended up doing. Now that i'm going to paint my bike i figured i'd use it. I'm going to start going around to local places asking for paint, but i have no idea what type paint i would need. can a hvlp gun with 1.4mm nosle spray any type (laquer, acrylic,...thats about all i can name).

My plan is just a simple glossy, or maybe even satin black all around. Depending on how that turns out, maybe add some red.

As for primer, i was thinking of something dark out of a rattle can. Will that effect anything?

Thanks

[chinto]

Re: types of paint

sorry if this has been discussed before, but i couldn't find quite what i was looking for.

A while ago i bought a cheap hvlp gun for a project i never ended up doing. Now that i'm going to paint my bike i figured i'd use it. I'm going to start going around to local places asking for paint, but i have no idea what type paint i would need. can a hvlp gun with 1.4mm nosle spray any type (laquer, acrylic,...thats about all i can name).

My plan is just a simple glossy, or maybe even satin black all around. Depending on how that turns out, maybe add some red.

As for primer, i was thinking of something dark out of a rattle can. Will that effect anything?

Thanks

In my opinion you should buy the primer from the same guy that sells you the paint. You will want to use a primer that is compatible with your paint. I have seen chemical reactions before from using different paints and it will turn an otherwise nice project into an eye sore.

Buy extra paint and spray some test panels in order to get the feel for it. It will also give you an opportunity to dial in the gun and sort out any problems you have. Buy thinners too. You will need to clean that gun right away. The spray gun should have come with instructions on how to clean it.

Where abouts are you located?

[maikhorma]

Re: types of paint

Where abouts are you located?

I live in phili, i'll be doing all my work on weekends at my parents place about an hour nortwest of the city though.

Thanks for the info, and you also reminded me to fill in my profile. Good point on getting the primer.

A few years ago i stopped by the nappa to get prices, and he said it would be 40$ for a pint + some more stuff i thought i didn't need (the guy was a d1ck), which seemed a lot to me. What I've got to do this weekend is to stop around locally and ask small places what they've got.

[brooder]

You'll need primer, oil based paint, reducer, and clear. If you're painting your tank, you either need a urethane clear or make sure you don't spill gas on anything.

[Mojoe]

you might want to stay away from gloss black as your first paintjob. well, you can try if you like, but just note that it is argueably the most difficult color to do. It's very unforgiving. orange peel, dust, scratches from sanding...these will all be magnified with black.
if you go black, wet-sand everything with at least 1000 grit before spraying the base. 400 will stick out. you will see all the sanding.
There is no such thing as a "quick job" with gloss black that looks decent. You need to take your time and be fussy. Matte black is easier, but will still show imperfections quite well.

[maikhorma]

Thanks for the suggestions.
As for going with black, i'm not sure how shiny i want to go yet, but i am still thinking of sticking with black. I hear your warning, but here are the reasons i'm sticking with it: i'm willing to take my time and do lots of sanding to get it right; its a '90, its my first bike, my first paint job, i won't be too dissapointed if it doesn't turn out perfect; finally, i just think it will look cool

Where I am now, today i stripped most my parts and started sanding, i'll probably spend all day tomorow sanding... I've gone around my town (small) and any place i try either don't have auto-paints, or are not very friendly and don't want to answer any questions. I'm going to keep looking around though

Now for more questions.
Does anyone know of any good write ups on preping and using an hvlp gun? If preping is just sanding though levels up to 1000, that i can handle. But after that I am lost, how many coats of primer, what grit to sand between coats, then the same questions for base, then clear. From what i can tell, it will vary depending on exactly what kind of paint i get, which may be why i'm having trouble finding answers. Will those details be included with the directions on the paint?

I'm thinking i should use an oil based laquer because of the fast drying time. I read somewhere that acrylic enamel was good, any reason i should use that instead?

I am painting my whole bike (including the tank) so am i right in thinking i should get enough urethane clear to use on the same bike to keep a consistant look?

Finally, does anyone thing i should give up on the hvlp gun, and just rattlecan it? It seems there are plenty of good write ups for that process that i should be able to follow. I would really like to learn to use the spray gun, but if i can get the same quality out of a can, i guess i might as well.

Thanks in advance.
(and if you made it all the way down this far, thanks for your patience)

[DreKat]

I bought my paint at NAPA as well as the Reducer, and Actovator, also while you are there buy a few extra filters for the gun. I bought all my supplies for about $100cdn. Get your self a good mask as well and some extra paint thinner to clean the gun. One more thing if you have access to old damaged faining test shot those first to get your rythem.

[DoubleD]

Don't mean to hijack - but when talking paint I often hear the term 'pearl'. Can anyone explain this?

[Mojoe]

Now for more questions.

Does anyone know of any good write ups on preping and using an hvlp gun? If preping is just sanding though levels up to 1000, that i can handle. But after that I am lost, how many coats of primer, what grit to sand between coats, then the same questions for base, then clear. From what i can tell, it will vary depending on exactly what kind of paint i get, which may be why i'm having trouble finding answers. Will those details be included with the directions on the paint?

I'm thinking i should use an oil based laquer because of the fast drying time. I read somewhere that acrylic enamel was good, any reason i should use that instead?

I am painting my whole bike (including the tank) so am i right in thinking i should get enough urethane clear to use on the same bike to keep a consistant look?

Finally, does anyone thing i should give up on the hvlp gun, and just rattlecan it? It seems there are plenty of good write ups for that process that i should be able to follow. I would really like to learn to use the spray gun, but if i can get the same quality out of a can, i guess i might as well.

Thanks in advance.
(and if you made it all the way down this far, thanks for your patience)

to answer the first question.....you want as little primer as possible. too many people have this misconception that more is better, and they are wrong. same with the basecoat. you only want 100% coverage. once you have a uniform base where you have no bleeding through of the primer or color underneath, that is all you need. The more you pile these things up, the more the risk of cracks and lifting later on...especially on flexible parts like bike fairings.
As for your primer......if you do not need it....do not use it. you can sand and paint right over the old clear. black covers everything.

next.....you do not need to go to an oil based paint for fast drying. this can be done with the type of reducer you use. lo-temp dries fast....hi-temp dries slow. on cooler days, you need the low temp so it will actually dry fast enough so that it does not run......and on hot days you need the high temp so that you can get a shine to it before it dries. if you attempt to use a low temp reducer on a hot day, you could not paint fast enough. do the complete opposite, and you cant paint slow enough.
This applies generally to cars. For smaller parts, using a fast drying reducer can be a good thing. That is all I use. I can paint my fairings at noon, and by suppertime I can be putting them on my bike.
There is also an unviveral reducer that can be used in most temps, but will give you problems if the temp is too low or too high.

as for all the sanding, I can not help you with that. I finish sand with 400 to 1000, depnding on what I am painting, and the color....and that is it. I do not sand my base and I do not sand my clear between coats. unless you are going for showcar results and want 15 coats of clear, it is not neccessary. a good buffing will get you the shine you need after it is all done, if you were not able to do it with the application of the clear by itself.

[Mojoe]

Don't mean to hijack - but when talking paint I often hear the term 'pearl'. Can anyone explain this?

they are just pigments you add to the paint to give it an effect. think old fashion metal flake on a much smaller scale. it is like a fine powder.

[maikhorma]

Thanks a lot mojo, all that information is exactly what I needed. Also, thanks to everyone else on this forum, this is my first bike so most the work i'm doing is a first time, and everyone's been great with answering my basic questions. Time to get to work and do some more sanding...

[chinto]

Thanks a lot mojo, all that information is exactly what I needed. Also, thanks to everyone else on this forum, this is my first bike so most the work i'm doing is a first time, and everyone's been great with answering my basic questions. Time to get to work and do some more sanding...

Mojoe gave you some good advice. If your plastics are already painted and you don't need primer don't use it. As you sand be careful not to break through to the primer and you won't need primer. Be extra careful around any corners or edges. It is very easy to break through on edges.

good luck

[Mojoe]

[quote="chinto"]

Be extra careful around any corners or edges. It is very easy to break through on edges.

good luck

yes....be careful for that.

and here is some more advice. when you spray the clear, do not try to get a nice shiney coat right at the beginning. consider the first coat a misting, then give it maybe 5-10 minutes (varies depending on the speed your reducer dries), then give it another good coat. depending on how much clear you want on the thing (I personally think 3 is plenty on flexible parts, with maybe up to 5 on a tank which is likely to get the most sctratches). The last coat of clear is when you start working on the shine. If you try to go for the shine right at the beginning, I can almost garantee you will getting some runs in the clear.

If you do get runs, do not touch them or try to remove them. I am talking one or two runs....not 7 or 8. Anyway, just ignore them and keep painting until you are done. After two or 3 days you can shave down the run with a special tool or as I use, a bondo file. then sand smooth, scuff the whole part with a scotchbrite brillo pad, and give it another coat of clear.

The reason you do not want ot remove the run right away is that your clear can soften the base and you end up wiping the basecoat off with the run. Plus it is garanteed that whater you use to try to wipe off a run will stick to the clear and leave all kinds of crap behind. There is a trick to removing runs with masking tape, but you need a steady hand and a lot of finesse. It still leaves a blemish that has to be repaired, but less of a hump that needs to be sanded or scraped down. But sometimes....if you are lucky....you can remove a run, then drown out the blemish with more clear. It takes patience, though.

Just have fun doing it, and do not try for perfection. well....you can try for sure, but just dont be disappointed if it does not come out perfect or you get a run. even the pros get them once in a while.....and I get one or two on almost every job I do, and I have to fix them up. in the end you would never see them....but for sure they were there at one time. There is a technique to painting, and NO ONE gets it perfect the first few times.

[chinto]

[quote="Mojoe"]

Be extra careful around any corners or edges. It is very easy to break through on edges.

good luck

yes....be careful for that.

and here is some more advice. when you spray the clear, do not try to get a nice shiney coat right at the beginning. consider the first coat a misting, then give it maybe 5-10 minutes (varies depending on the speed your reducer dries), then give it another good coat. depending on how much clear you want on the thing (I personally think 3 is plenty on flexible parts, with maybe up to 5 on a tank which is likely to get the most sctratches). The last coat of clear is when you start working on the shine. If you try to go for the shine right at the beginning, I can almost garantee you will getting some runs in the clear.

If you do get runs, do not touch them or try to remove them. I am talking one or two runs....not 7 or 8. Anyway, just ignore them and keep painting until you are done. After two or 3 days you can shave down the run with a special tool or as I use, a bondo file. then sand smooth, scuff the whole part with a scotchbrite brillo pad, and give it another coat of clear.

The reason you do not want ot remove the run right away is that your clear can soften the base and you end up wiping the basecoat off with the run. There is a trick to removing heavy runs with masking tape, but you need a steady hand and a lot of finesse. It still leaves a blemish that has to be repaired, but less of a hump that needs to be sanded or scraped down.

Just have fun doing it, and do not try for perfection. well....you can try for sure, but just dont be disappointed if it does not come out perfect or you get a run. even the pros get them once in a while.....and I get one or two on almost every job I do, and I have to fix them up. in the end you would never see them....but for sure they were there at one time. There is a technique to painting, and NO ONE gets it perfect the first few times.

The same can be said for either dust particles or any small bugs that may land in your fresh paint as well.

[Mojoe]

yup....same thing. however you have to remove a bug. you cant just leave it there if it has any size to it.
when I do have a fly land on my fresh coat of clear, I have a set of surgical tweasers and I play doctor. just imagine that game when we were kids wayyyy back.....where you had to remove bones without touching the sides or the game would buzz. I think it was called operation, if I am not mistaken.
you should always have some tweasers close by, just in case. and you have to be fast. for each few seconds it stays there, the more the clear will dry and hold it there. you could end up removing the body, while the legs and wings stay.