[92xjunker]

That kinda says it ain't the coils.

I'm thinking weak spark with poor fuel delivery ( dirty carbs)

[DocCannabis]

They were weak when tested, I don't remember the figures exactly in bits of frustration... One was better than the other but neither seemed as strong as they should. Coils are ordered and not a bad price either... If its not the problem its not a huge hit and I'll have spares...

Carbs should be good, they are fresh from Arsenic in October, last time the bike ran was the 23rd of December when I rode it home just fine... I drained the bowls and put Stabil in the full tank.

I haven't given up though so if you have ideas keep them coming, the sooner I get her running again the happier I'll be I can retest the coils tomorrow and get back with accurate readings.

[TRPUT]

The "Coil Relay Mod" might be the go. It transformed my pre. About $12 and an hour - worth a shot to at least remove any loss of voltage from the quite old, convoluted and inherently insufficient harness.

And don't want to bust your bubble further, but you might have little joy from the "new" coils if they are already 16 years old. (Before I buy used parts, especially electrical, I like a really good reason why they aren't still in use ... something that negates "They were fucked so I replaced them." or "Bike was swamped by Katrina.")

[DocCannabis]

The "Coil Relay Mod" might be the go. It transformed my pre. About $12 and an hour - worth a shot to at least remove any loss of voltage from the quite old, convoluted and inherently insufficient harness.

And don't want to bust your bubble further, but you might have little joy from the "new" coils if they are already 16 years old. (Before I buy used parts, especially electrical, I like a really good reason why they aren't still in use ... something that negates "They were fucked so I replaced them." or "Bike was swamped by Katrina.")

Totally understand that, in ways the coils are just My guess what was wrong in the beginning and what I already started at before I came and bugged you guys So if its not bad coil/s then that's my own "Lived and Learned" moment... I'll try and get to more voltage testing this evening and look for what I need to try to do the Coil Relay Mod, if someone already has a link saved to the How To I would greatly appreciate you posting it, but I'm sure when I have the extra time it won't be hard to find.

Have a good day guys and thanks for the assistance!

[Kreylyn]

Totally understand that, in ways the coils are just My guess what was wrong in the beginning and what I already started at before I came and bugged you guys So if its not bad coil/s then that's my own "Lived and Learned" moment... I'll try and get to more voltage testing this evening and look for what I need to try to do the Coil Relay Mod, if someone already has a link saved to the How To I would greatly appreciate you posting it, but I'm sure when I have the extra time it won't be hard to find.

Have a good day guys and thanks for the assistance!

Not being snarky with this, but... this will help you find alot of information here on KR using the site specific google search method as linked here for example...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=site%3Akatriders.com+relay+mod

FYI... first link that comes up is what your looking for.

Krey

[92xjunker]

Carbs should be good, they are fresh from Arsenic in October, last time the bike ran was the 23rd of December when I rode it home just fine... I drained the bowls and put Stabil in the full tank.

If they were from arsenic, they were delivered clean. Did you inspect the tank? (rust and bebris).
I would do a coil realy mod.

[DocCannabis]

Carbs should be good, they are fresh from Arsenic in October, last time the bike ran was the 23rd of December when I rode it home just fine... I drained the bowls and put Stabil in the full tank.

If they were from arsenic, they were delivered clean. Did you inspect the tank? (rust and bebris).
I would do a coil realy mod.

Yup! Inspected the tank before I ever mounted it the first time, was very clean, got an even better look a few days later when I had the petcock apart for a rebuild. Very clean, from top to bottom.

Not being snarky with this, but... this will help you find alot of information here on KR using the site specific google search method as linked here for example...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=site%3Akatriders.com+relay+mod

FYI... first link that comes up is what your looking for.

Krey

No "snark" taken man, I was just asking if anyone had it "handy" I was on my way out to do some shopping and have a long list of shit to do today, thanks for the info!

[DocCannabis]

So I got to getting some voltage tests again, the voltage to the right Coil was around 6v and the left* is only getting 4v or so, was an analog tester as I don't have a digital yet... But I'm guessing the relay mod is going to be the answer

Although, my father and I got into an argument of sorts about that, he is under the impression that the "relay mod" is going to be drawing constant power from the battery.... I'm with you guys on the mod but I don't know how to explain to him how it won't draw power, I'm still doing my research and planning for the mod so I don't completely understand what it does and how it maneuvers around the power shortage....Other than "going around" the bad wires/connection(Or whatever is draining the power) Anybody care to shed a little light on that for me??

[92xjunker]

You need to find the voltage drop, 6v to the relay isn't going to work either.

[Kreylyn]

So I got to getting some voltage tests again, the voltage to the right Coil was around 6v and the right is only getting 4v or so, was an analog tester as I don't have a digital yet... But I'm guessing the relay mod is going to be the answer

Although, my father and I got into an argument of sorts about that, he is under the impression that the "relay mod" is going to be drawing constant power from the battery.... I'm with you guys on the mod but I don't know how to explain to him how it won't draw power, I'm still doing my research and planning for the mod so I don't completely understand what it does and how it maneuvers around the power shortage....Other than "going around" the bad wires/connection(Or whatever is draining the power) Anybody care to shed a little light on that for me??

I can explain that...

The OEM wiring harness combines power draw from the battery for the coils, lights, and misc components. The battery puts out only so much power.

The head light will drain aprox 1-1.5v right off the bat. So your looking at a max voltage of a fully charged battery of 13.4v dropping to 12... add to that older wire with incresed resistances, dirty/poor connections between, and more... you generally see a bike in really good condition with about a 11v power source at the coils. Add in any degradation and that goes down fast.

If you have less than 10.5v your simply not going to get enough spark to start a cold engine with the starter.

The relay mod uses a relay to bypass the issues and put the full battery output directly to the coils. Generally this means you won't see major drops in power due to age, or the headlight being on.

It does this by using a power source to power the relay. The relay is a trigger or switch. I used the coil primary power souce to trigger the relay as those are already hooked into the key system.

So basically, turn the key on.. power is sent to the orange wires that used to be connected to the coils... instead 1 is connected to the relay now. The relay activates, and send the secondary power source to the coils.... directly from the battery. Turn the key off, relay turns off... power to the coils turns off.

The reason power to the coils is so important is because of how they work. 2 circuits, both powered up creats 2 seperate electrical fields. If you suddently drop power to one (the black and white wires from the CDI do this) then the second field also collapses sending a surge of power to ground out through the spark plugs (your spark). The stronger the field that collapses is, the larger that spark will be.

Krey

[DocCannabis]

Hmmm.... wonder where it could be getting killed off.... Its really strange it just happened without warning, ran perfectly up until 23rd of December when I put her away for the winter, she stayed dry.... Not incredibly warm but dry.

Anyways too frustrated/angry after the argument to fuck with it anymore today, father expects me to sit with my thumb up my ass until the coils get here so he can say "I told you so...." But I guess we will see. I'm going to get the bike and bring it home tonight, so when I decide I'm calm enough to tinker again I don't have him bickering over my shoulder.... No offense to any dads out there, but if your son is trying to learn how to maintain something he owns, don't discourage them.... Puts a monkey wrench in the entire day.

I can explain that...

The OEM wiring harness combines power draw from the battery for the coils, lights, and misc components. The battery puts out only so much power.

The head light will drain aprox 1-1.5v right off the bat. So your looking at a max voltage of a fully charged battery of 13.4v dropping to 12... add to that older wire with incresed resistances, dirty/poor connections between, and more... you generally see a bike in really good condition with about a 11v power source at the coils. Add in any degradation and that goes down fast.

If you have less than 10.5v your simply not going to get enough spark to start a cold engine with the starter.

The relay mod uses a relay to bypass the issues and put the full battery output directly to the coils. Generally this means you won't see major drops in power due to age, or the headlight being on.

It does this by using a power source to power the relay. The relay is a trigger or switch. I used the coil primary power souce to trigger the relay as those are already hooked into the key system.

So basically, turn the key on.. power is sent to the orange wires that used to be connected to the coils... instead 1 is connected to the relay now. The relay activates, and send the secondary power source to the coils.... directly from the battery. Turn the key off, relay turns off... power to the coils turns off.

The reason power to the coils is so important is because of how they work. 2 circuits, both powered up creats 2 seperate electrical fields. If you suddently drop power to one (the black and white wires from the CDI do this) then the second field also collapses sending a surge of power to ground out through the spark plugs (your spark). The stronger the field that collapses is, the larger that spark will be.

Krey

Thank you Krey, that summed it up very well even for a half-wit like myself I'll try and explain it just like that when he catches me doing the relay mod after I hopefully chase down the loss of power. My battery is reading a strong 12v (while cranking, and again an analog tester so hard to be exact) and it was new in mid October shortly after I got carbs from Arsenic.

[TRPUT]

Ask your Dad if he knows what a relay does. He obviously doesn't. As Krey says, the original coil wires (orange) trigger the relay which then closes the circuit to connect the battery directly to the coils (through the relay). There is no "constant drain" on the battery - it draws from the battery EXACTLY as it would before, except an additional, new, heavy gauge wire by-passes the failing, over-loaded harness.

Completed, it looks like this ...

[DocCannabis]

Ask your Dad if he knows what a relay does. He obviously doesn't. As Krey says, the original coil wires (orange) trigger the coil which then closes the circuit to connect the battery directly to the coils (through the relay). There is no "constant drain" on the battery - it draws from the battery EXACTLY as it would before, except an additional, new, heavy gauge wire by-passes the failing, over-loaded harness.

Completed, it looks like this ...

He just didn't realize the new Relay doubles as the Trigger. He's not an electrician and neither am I... I tried to explain it but I couldn't find the right words.... Krey summed it up beautifully though I made him read Krey's reply and got the "Oh! OK! Well I'm sorry I argued with you about it"

But I'm now on the hunt for a power drain... And I have no idea where to start.... should I start hunting wires backwards from the coils and look for defects? Is there a key junction or something I should focus my attention towards first? Any suggestions are appreciated!

[TRPUT]

Check the wiring diagram in the manual - it will show the route the circuit makes. Check all connections including fuses, relay, earths and wires for worn insulation etc. You can even isolate sections of the circuit and test resistance with your multimeter to narrow it down. A few guys have had issues within the switch assembly so that could be worth checking / cleaning.

[DocCannabis]

Currently eyeballs deep in the diagram I've never done many of these diagrams before so its taking me some time to "decode" it and find the actual wires on the bike but I'm slowly getting the gist of it.

Check the wiring diagram in the manual - it will show the route the circuit makes. Check all connections including fuses, relay, earths and wires for worn insulation etc. You can even isolate sections of the circuit and test resistance with your multimeter to narrow it down. A few guys have had issues within the switch assembly so that could be worth checking / cleaning.

by "the switch" you mean the Starter Button/Kill switch??