[Yellow2002Kat]

wrong - YOU DON'T NEED A GROUND WIRE FOR A GFI !!!!!

Proper installation of a GFI does require a ground wire.

it senses the imbalance between the hot & neutral wire. it has NOTHING to do with the ground wire ( other than the 'leak' may be flowing in that wire )

Thanks for repeating my comments - I explained the imbalance in detail.

You say yourself that the ground wire serves no purpose other than absorbing the "leak" - so IT DOES SERVE A PURPOSE!!! ABSORBING LEAKAGE BELOW 5 MILLIAMPS!!!

and the comment about keeping it under 25'. are you nuts ? copper wire in 14 guage has a resistance of .00297 ohms per foot !

No, I'm not nuts. Thanks for asking though. It's sound advice because the tender tells him not to use an extension cord at all. Therefore, it's best to keep the distance limited to a very safe range.

[trinc]

a ground wire for GFI is code because the fact that ALL outlets are required to have a ground. but a ground is not needed forr a GFI to work.

i think you miss read my comment about the ground wire - for a leak to occur there must be a path for it to flow - with over 20 yrs working in the field ive seen more problems with ground runs than i can count. if a leak is going to flow down the ground line - what if the ground wasn't there ? it doesn't mean that it's going to flow through you.

but my point is that using an extension cord is fine if you don't overload the rating of the cord & keep it in good shape. the fact stupid people overheat cheap cords makes everyone state not to use one. and current code with 8ft spacing & an outlet on every wall has really reduced the need

tim

[trinc]

this is from batterytender.com

"CHARGER MAINTENANCE: NEVER disassemble the charger or attempt to do internal repairs. Take it to a qualified service technician. Assembling the charger incorrectly may result in the risk of electric shock or create a fire hazard. EXTENSION CORDS: An extension cord should not be used unless absolutely necessary. Using improper extension cord could result in a risk of fire and electric shock. If extension cord must be used, make sure that: That pins on the plug of extension cord have the same number, size, and shape as those of the AC power cord plug on the charger; that extension cord is properly wired and is in good electrical condition."

so it seems you can use one.

tim

[Yellow2002Kat]

a ground wire for GFI is code because the fact that ALL outlets are required to have a ground. but a ground is not needed forr a GFI to work.

i think you miss read my comment about the ground wire - for a leak to occur there must be a path for it to flow - with over 20 yrs working in the field ive seen more problems with ground runs than i can count. if a leak is going to flow down the ground line - what if the ground wasn't there ? it doesn't mean that it's going to flow through you.

but my point is that using an extension cord is fine if you don't overload the rating of the cord & keep it in good shape. the fact stupid people overheat cheap cords makes everyone state not to use one. and current code with 8ft spacing & an outlet on every wall has really reduced the need

tim

I think we're pretty much in agreement, but perhaps misunderstood eachother.

Yes, I know a GFI will work without a ground wire, but that's not the proper way to connect it. Whenever I hang a light with a chain in the house I always cut the ground wire because I hate the way it looks going up the chain. Does it work? Sure. Is that truly the proper hookup? No.

Actually, without a ground wire or GFI a "leak" can travel through your body given the opportunity. I'm sure you know that the main service should be grounded via the neutral to the water main in general residential applications. In theory everything is grounded through the neutral.

However, let's use the following example. You have a malfunctioning device on the far side of the house that is "leaking" 6mA. That won't trip the breaker, but if you grab that cord the "leak" can very easily travel through your body as electricity always wants to travel the shortest path. While it may have been happily travelling back to ground via the neutral, once you give it a shorter path it may wanna run through you.

Of course, this is more likely to affect a person where the conditions are ripe for your body to serve as a conductor (i.e., in the bathroom, kitchen, garage, etc.). That's why GFIs are mandatory in those locations, but a simple ground will suffice in areas such as the living room.

I agree that too many folks use extension cords to solve their immediate problems. Look how many people put those damn adapters in their receptacles to turn one outlet into eight? You just can't protect everyone from themselves.

I have a habit of always erring on the side of caution. When I do electrical work in my house I won't even use Romex - I still use BX cable for everything. Hey, I need to use my hacksaw and redheads once in a while anyway .

[trinc]

BX ! now theres a labor of love. it's just hard to do re-work with it.
my house was built in '24 and i'm not cutting up my walls for BX !

i'd had to have a dead short though and try and find which end cap fell off


sorry to agrue - but i think that the ground is over rated as a safety
device. modern insulation is very good & unless you have a cracked cord and standing in a tube full of water it's difficult to get shocked. ( even with that more & more homes are being built with ABS and plastic water pipes )

i think the GFI is great as you know water & electricity don't mix well.

tim

btw: i'm telling - you didn't ground your light bulb !!!

[iwannadie]

lol ok you guys lost me with all your techno mumbo jumbo...

the tender is grounded(3 prong), i have a 25' orange(dosnt the color go by power rating for the different cords?) grounded cord.

would that 25' orange grounded cord work well enough? or would the tender extension line be safer? or is it equal between the two?

im leaning towards the extension cord so i can place the tender where i want it since the outlet is in a weird spot, and the tender cord is pretty short.

[Yellow2002Kat]

Provided the cord is in good repair it should serve you well. As far as the rating of your cord, look at the damn tag attached to it .

Trinc: Don't rat me out about the fixture, OK .


P.S. I have plastic plumbing in my house and it bothers the hell out of me...

[iwannadie]

[quote="Yellow2002Kat"]Provided the cord is in good repair it should serve you well. As far as the rating of your cord, look at the damn tag attached to it .

Trinc: Don't rat me out about the fixture, OK .


P.S. I have plastic plumbing in my house and it bothers the hell out of me...[/quote

ya like all those numbers on the tag would mean anything to me

[The CyberPoet]

P.S. I have plastic plumbing in my house and it bothers the hell out of me...

Plastic's ok, as long as it's not coupled to metals where the feed pipes come into the house and there's no mixing between them... My problem in my last house was a triple-combo -- iron feeds to the house, copper in the walls, and plastic under the sink & in the redone bathrooms. Guess what happened? (Hint: dielectrically accelerated corrosion failures).
The biggest PIA failure was where the iron met the copper at the main iron feeds right at the exterior wall -- couldn't expose enough copper without breaking out cinderblocks (and supporting the wall above). Reason wasn't the copper meeting the iron (that connection had been good for 40 years) -- it was the plastic further upstream changing the dielectric nature of the whole system as charges jumped from water to metal to water, etc. whenever the system carried a charge and the charge had to pass through a section of plastic...

Taught me a damn lesson...

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[iwannadie]

whenever the system carried a charge and the charge had to pass through a section of plastic...

Taught me a damn lesson...

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

courtesy flush?